Edward Monaghan

[redclover]

Hi, Edward Monaghan was born 11 October 1969 at Ashton under Lyne, baptised at St Mary, Ashton under Lyne on 25 October 1869. He was the son of Ross Andrew and Ann Monaghan.

Ann married James (Joannis) Goulden at St Mary, Ashton under Lyne on 29 September 1870. Her father's name was Thomas Monaghan.

Eventually Edward joined the army in 1886 in Dublin and married Sarah Darcy there in 1890.
His army discharge papers gave his next of kin (mother) as Ann Golding (should be Goulden) of 81 Church Street, Ashton under Lyne.

I have searched hi and low for Edward on the 1871 and 1881 census records. The closest I have come is a possible entry in the 1881 census for Ashton under Lyne which has the following:

James Goolden      42    born Ireland
Annie Goolden       36    born Ireland
Edward Monogue   11    born Ashton under Lyne

RG11, 4036, 51,  15

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks, Richard.

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

[cath151]

Possible in 1871 though Ann is supposedly married ?

Fleet Street, Ashton under Lyne

Ann Golden  head mar 40 Housekeeper  Co Mayo Ireland
Edward "                      1    son             Ashton under Lyne
John Murphy  lodger     56   Stripper      Ireland
Owen Carrol   lodger     65   Stripper      Ireland   

Cathy  
Added... I think she would be too old unfortunately

[arthurk]

The 1871 and 1881 census entries are both from Fleet Street in Ashton-under-Lyne (but different numbers), which might suggest it's the same family. I read Edward's surname in 1881 as Monagem, or possibly Monagen.

Clearly there's something a bit odd about Ann's age, though ages in censuses can sometimes be guesses, and sometimes enumerators may have misread the household forms. What was her age given as when she married, in later censuses and when she died?

[heywood]

I would think they are both the same family and probably the correct one.

[redclover]

Hi cath151 thanks for your help.
I saw the record you mentioned and wondered if Edward had adopted his step-father's surname after Ann married James Goulden in 1870.
I found a record in the 1881 census for :

Anne Goulden 50 Widow born in Galway
John Goulden  16  born Liverpool
Mary Goulden  11  born Liverpool

RG11, Piece3593, Folio107, Page66.

A baptismal record from 29 July 1869 for Mary Elizabeth Goulden, at St Albans Liverpool, suggests that Ann was married to John Goulden so unlikely to be our Ann Monaghan. In these records, the age for Ann is consistent and birth in 1831 rather than 1845.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

[redclover]

Hi arthurk, thanks for your help.
I noticed that both census records listed Fleet Street as the address, but I think this is a coincidence. Checking various sources, I found many, many Gouldens, Gooldens, Goldens etc., all with addresses in Ashton under Lyne. Church Street, quoted as the address for Ann Golding in Edward's discharge papers, is adjacent to Fleet Street.

I found many Goulden families in Lancashire, several for James and Ann as parents. Quite often the family would have several children born at various places in lancashire, but usually one of them would have been born in Ashton under Lyne. Maybe some sort of homing instinct.

You asked about a possible age for Ann Monaghan. The records I have (from Lancashire On Line Parish Clerk Project) for Edward's birth and Ann subsequent marriage, do not list her age. This lack of a birth year is part of the problem in identifying her on the census records. I am coming across too many Ann (Annie) Gouldens (and variants) some with husbands, James Goulden, and some widowed. Makes it very difficult.

[heywood]

Godmother, Susannah Cullen also in Fleet Street in 1871 and both marriage witnesses are from Fleet Street also.

[redclover]

Hi Heywood thanks for your input.
I am still to be convinced that the two records in question refer to the same person.

Firstly my reasoning is as follows:
Edward was born illegitimate and his surname was registered as Monaghan on his birth cert. For his mother, Ann, to have changed it to Goulden in 1871, and by 1881 to have changed it back to Monaghan seems unlikely. At the age of 11 Edward seems too young to have insisted on the change.

Secondly there are some additional facts. When Edward signed up to the army in 1886, he gave his next of kin as Ann Goulding, Ashton under Lyne. When he married Sarah Darcy in Dublin in 1890, on the marriage cert, he gave his father's name as Edward Monaghan (deceased).
As he married in a Catholic church in Ireland was he reluctant to admit to the priest or possibly his wife's parents, that he was illegitimate. So he made up a name and declaring he had died explained his absence at the wedding.

Alternatively i wondered if Edward (and wife) had adopted Edward at birth or soon after. This was why I was searching for him in the 1871 census records. The records for Ann Goulden don't support this.

Things aren't helped by a 1901 Census record from Whittington, Staffordshire.
While Edward was serving in South Africa in the Boer war, his wife Sarah (Darcy) was at the Regimental barracks with all her children,

Sarah Monaghan    37   Head
John Monaghan      7
William Monaghan   5
Alfred Monaghan     3
Kathleen Monaghan  1
Susan MORAGHAN    51  Mother-in-law.

RG 13 Piece 2656 Folio 174 Page 19.

So did Sarah assume Susan was Edward's mother or did she know about Ann Monaghan?

Was Susan, Edward (senior's) wife, or did Edward make up the name on his marriage cert to avoid embarrassment. What a family.

Now you see why I am asking for help.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

[redclover]

Hi heywood, yes the witnesses and godparents came from Fleet Street and the address for Ann Monaghan on Edward's birth cert, I am told is also Fleet Street. The address for Ann Golding, as next of kin, in Edward's discharge papers, is given as 81 Church Street, Ashton under Lyne. Church Street and Fleet street were close together and both were lengthy streets with dozens of terrace houses.

The Church Street address was given to the army in 1886 on enlisting at Warrington. I checked the individual pages for Church Street and Fleet Street on the 1881 Census. The family at No 81 were named Dolan, and there was no record of a Goulden, Gouldiing etc. on Church Street. The only family on Fleet Street were the record we have for James and Ann and Edward Monogue.

Similarly I checked the 1871 Census and there was no Goulden at 81 Church Street.

This begs the question, when Edward enlisted, why didn't he give Edward and Susan as his next of kin, but instead gave his true mother's name, Ann. Where did he get the address 81 Church Street from?

His birth cert had Fleet Street, and anyway he apparently falsified his age and told them he was 18 when he signed up in 1886, when in fact he was only 17. So he could not have produced his birth cert then.