Author Topic: Why did parents stop christening their children post-1837?  (Read 5775 times)

Offline Craclyn

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Re: Why did parents stop christening their children post-1837?
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 02 November 19 08:54 GMT (UK) »
That would make sense, but didn’t most people not possess a physical copy of their birth certificate?

They did not have a birth certificate before Civil Registration. See my answer no. 3 above. The only official recognition of the child were the parish records so people baptised their children regardless of whether they were interested in religion.
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Offline MacGrigor

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Re: Why did parents stop christening their children post-1837?
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 02 November 19 09:13 GMT (UK) »
No, as in a paper copy. Their births were registered, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they possessed a copy themselves.
Lipman family of Aldgate - ends with Lewis Lipman (d. 1871, Bethnal Green), son of John Lipman 'late of Glasgow' (1856)
McGregor family of Fodderty - ends with Alexander McGregor (b. 1765, Fodderty), son of Murdoch McGregor and Kate Stewart

Offline Regorian

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Re: Why did parents stop christening their children post-1837?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 02 November 19 09:47 GMT (UK) »
I'm surprised to hear that. Non Conformist Chapels were proliferating by the 1840's all over the Country. Most can be seen today, even if some have been converted to residences. State registration of BMD's was a legal requirement and the population a few years after 1837 were reminded so. As people had to pay for a certificate on registration, I would have thought they held on to them.

C of E baptisms may have diminished to be replaced by non conformist ones, I don't know. If my wider family was typical, they kept their certificates religiously ;D
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Offline Top-of-the-hill

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Re: Why did parents stop christening their children post-1837?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 02 November 19 11:02 GMT (UK) »
   I don't think the C of E ever issued Baptismal certificates - not Birth certificates - except possibly from the later 19th C? The entry in the register was the only record. (As has already been said) I have certainly noticed a dropping off of baptisms after 1837, I suspect partly to do with the move into towns, as well as non-conformity.
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Offline Regorian

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Re: Why did parents stop christening their children post-1837?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 02 November 19 12:42 GMT (UK) »
Most certainly did, I have my own and my younger brothers.
Griffiths Llandogo, Mitcheltroy, Mon. and Whitchurch Here (Also Edwards),  18th C., Griffiths FoD 19th Century.

Offline chempat

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Re: Why did parents stop christening their children post-1837?
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 02 November 19 14:05 GMT (UK) »
In my primary school in the 1950's, when I said that I had not been baptised/christened, no other child in my class (about 35 children) could believe me.

Has anyone done a search for baptism rates or some form of hard evidence, or did rates go down and then up and then down?

Offline california dreamin

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Re: Why did parents stop christening their children post-1837?
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 02 November 19 15:17 GMT (UK) »
Here is my understanding (which I think covers points made by others)- Pre Civil registration in order to legitimise the birth of your child couples would have their child baptised within the Anglican (CoE) faith although they might be of another religion.   Pre-civil reg marriages were most likely held in CoE churches, again for the marriage to be recognised in law.  You may have noticed 'married by licence' in some parish registers and being of another faith is one possible reason for  being married by licence. Most burials were in the local churchyard as many places had no municipal cemeteries for other religions these were established later.  I don't know the dates for this occurrence but I'm sure someone will, and possibly varied from place to place.

I was told once by a 'genealogist'  that when civil reg was introduced many of the first people to use the new 'system' were non-conformists in order to alleviate having to marry/baptise their child within the Anglican faith.  If you are noticing a pattern for your family I would definitely look at other religions to see if they appear in those parish registers as well. Also remember not everything is online or indeed still exists.  Some of these issues might relate to the area you are searching in.

CD 

Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Why did parents stop christening their children post-1837?
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 02 November 19 15:59 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

It's just a trend I've noticed. Especially in small farming communities, although twice in towns and once in a city in my line. Pre-1837, I can find christenings for all but a handful of ancestors, but post-1837 there are a few that had their births registered but were never christened.

The trend you noticed actually started many years before 1937, so you have been fortunate.
The reasons for the decline of Baptisms for as early as the mid 18th century were multiply and various and included the rise of non-conformity, the relaxing of laws against Papists (Catholics) etc.
The advent of Civil Registeration was simply the last nail in the coffin.

Judging by the time 1840s-1900s, and the location (rural hamlets and villages), I don't think they were likely influenced by the growth of atheism following the publication of Darwin's 'On The Origin of Species'. Their parents, born pre-1837, living in the same small settlements, were always christened at a parish church, and there were no major chapels around. Did parents perhaps not bother because they knew their children already existed on a record? Did they see birth registration as equivalent to a christening?

Adam

The Church of England certainly took the opinion that some people thought just that. Witnessed by the publication of leaflets & pamplets such as – 'Registration is not Baptism' and 'The Church Register is not Superseded by the New Register'.
For more information I would suggest downloading and reading R W Ambler's paper -
"Civil Registration and Baptism: Popular perceptions of the 1836 Act for Registering Births, Deaths and Marriages"
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01oke/

Cheers
Guy
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Offline majm

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Re: Why did parents stop christening their children post-1837?
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 02 November 19 16:09 GMT (UK) »
That would make sense, but didn’t most people not possess a physical copy of their birth certificate?

Why would they?  What actual piece of paper issued to your parents when you were born do you still use today when asked to prove your identity? 

In NSW,  Australia,  if you need your NSW birth certificate for Official purposes ....( eg applying for an Australian passport, ) the certified copy of your civil birth registration needs to be the official document issued within twelve months of the date of your current passport application. ANY other earlier certified copy is No longer acceptable ... i.e.  The document issued when your birth was registered is no longer valid.

Re CofE baptisms post 1837 E&W civil registrations .... the ceremony of baptism has NO clergy fees (and did not have fees in 1800s either) and the record of the ceremony is entered in the church register. Post 1837,  If someone in England or Wales, years later, needed 'proof' they were baptised then they could apply to that church for a document confirming their baptism,  but their parents were not automatically handed any document at the time of the ceremony.   The concept of issuing a document confirming a church ceremony is restricted to marriage,  both parties to sign/make their mark,  witnesses sign/mark.    But other church ceremonies eg : churchings/christenings/baptisms/burials .... historically,  no formal blank pre printed documents issued to clergy for their use until at least several decades after civil registration became a widespread practice throughout the British Empire.  One civil purpose for a baptism certificate being issued would be documents sought by 1850s and 1860s Emigration Agents canvassing throughout GB setting up families and singles for immigration to the British Colonies .. so a ready document confirming the persons name, birth place, age, parents, etc would have been useful even if the emigrants were not yet literate...

JM

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