John & Thomas Lovell

[chempat]

'This one definitely was born in July 1845 in Lankashire '

1) There is no Lankashire in England - there is a Lancashire.
2) There is a Lanarkshire - but in Scotland.
3) If that date of July 1845 is taken from the death inscription/certificate, it is not fact.
4) There were very few births for Lovel/Lavel/Livel/Lovell etcetc in Lancashire, and not a Thomas around - unfortunately there were a lot of Smiths.
5) The only proposed census for him for 1851 does not have him as from Lancashire, and the wrong age.
6) As we cannot even find one English Thomas Lovell in Lancashire, do not want to try and find two of them.

Have you got a marriage for John and Lucia?

Will keep looking.

[chempat]

Have you got John and Lucia after 1860, and is this one of their children, no date:

John Lovell   Spouse:  Lucia Murphy
Child:  Mabel J. Lovell
Film Number:  001312956

Added:
Ignore this, think she was born 1894.

[Maiden Stone]

A possibility In 1851 there is a

John LOVILL (as transcribed on Ancestry)  labourer 34 b Preston Lancashire
Louisa  wife 36 b ditto
Hannah dau 9 b Hamilton Yorkshire
Thomas son 8 b Doncaster Yorkshire

Haven’t followed them through yet
Indexed as LEVILL on FindMyPast

Could "Hamilton", Hannah's birthplace have been Hambleton? I don't know of a place Hamilton in Yorkshire, although people with local knowledge may know of it. There is a town, Hamilton in Lanarkshire, Scotland.
If this was the correct Thomas, perhaps he'd been living in Lancashire since he was very young and assumed he'd been born there.

[mckha489]

If this was the correct Thomas, perhaps he'd been living in Lancashire since he was very young and assumed he'd been born there.

What I thought was a possibility was that if it were this John and son Thomas, that because they presumably went to US while Thomas was still young, he probably grew up knowing his father was “from Lancashire” and so assumed he was too. ...


I cannot see that family after the 1851, but nor can I see what might have happened to Louisa and Hannah.   

[lancsann]

just puuting this as a possible scenario

Baptism: 17 Sep 1845 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Thomas Smith - Son of Edward Smith & Mary
    Born: 25 Jul
    Abode: Pitt Street
    Occupation: Stonemason

[hhuffman7]

First of all I want to express my thanks to everyone for the help.
 Second, I have managed to find handwritten documents from Elgin, Illinois giving more clarification. 

Thomas Smith was adopted by John Lovel of Elgin, Kane County, Illinois. His name was officially changed to Thomas Smith Lovel on 26 Sept 1868. At the time of this name change, Thomas had been a resident of Illinois for at least 11 years. Per his military discharge papers he was born in Manchester and not Lancashire England.

Based on this, I'm thinking the 1860 census with a Thomas living with John and Lucia Lovel is the correct one.

[chempat]

'Per his military discharge papers he was born in Manchester and not Lancashire England.'

Manchester is in Lancashire, so that still fits.

lancsann has given you a birth on 25th July for a Thomas Smith, in Wigan.  Wigan is about 20 miles from Manchester, and is in Lancashire - seems reasonable to investigate further.

There could be other Thomas Smiths with the same birth date, as not all birth dates are recorded on baptismal entries - depended on the vicar.

[chempat]

There are baptisms for several children of Edward Smith and Mary, he a stone mason, in Wigan :
www.lan-opc.org.uk
In 1851, Mary is widowed :
Mary Smith  51  Aspull
William Smith  27 son  widowed  Power loom weaver   Aspull
Richard Smith  20 son  Wigan
Mary Smith  14
Robert Smith  12
George Smith  10
Edward Smith  8
Thomas Smith  5  son
John Smith   4  nephew

In 1861, cannot see Mary with 'children'.  George and Edward may be lodgers, separately not together, older brothers married....Thomas in US?

[lancsann]

I wonder why he officially changed his name AFTER he married. Who did he name as his father on his marriage certificate.

Were there any other relevant details on his military (US?) record