Pengelly-Talland

[NooshieW]

Hi
I am looking for my 4 x Gt Grandfather John Pengelly bc 1780 possibly in Talland ,as that is where my 3 x Gt Grandma Martha was baptised in 1816.
I don’t have a marriage for John,the closest being John marrying Elizabeth Olford in 1801 in Talland.
However,I can only find two children of the John and Elizabeth pairing, my 3 x Gt Grandma Martha and a son John in 1814. It seems a big gap between marriage and children.
I have found a couple on 1851 census living in Looe ,John and Elizabeth Pengelly and then an Elizabeth Pengelly who is a widow in 1861,but wrong birthplace for the Elizabeth marrying in 1801 who was from Lansallos.
Help please.

[KGarrad]

At the baptism of Martha, the parents were living in Looe.
(as per Cornwall OPC Database).
Father John was a mariner.

There is an 1800 marriage in St Marin by Looe, John Pengelly to Elizabeth Burt?
Or an 1801 marriage in Lansallos; John Pengelly to Elizabeth Olford.
John was a fisherman of Talland.

[NooshieW]

This is the dilemma, which of these two marriages could be the right one? Not only that , it would be most unusual to have a 14 year wait for the first child, not impossible, but unusual.
I am not sure who is who and whether it not there were more children, also whether the Pengelly on the censuses are mine, very woolly indeed.

[ciderdrinker]

hi
Baptism John s of William and Grace Pengelly at Talland 6.4.1783
Burial there 1782-28.5.1855.

I'll see what else I can find

Ciderdrinker

[philipsearching]

At the baptism of Martha, the parents were living in Looe.
(as per Cornwall OPC Database).
Father John was a mariner.

There is an 1800 marriage in St Marin by Looe, John Pengelly to Elizabeth Burt?
Or an 1801 marriage in Lansallos; John Pengelly to Elizabeth Olford.
John was a fisherman of Talland.

The PR (image on FamilySearch) of the St Martin by Looe marriage on 24 Sep 1800 has John PENGELLY labourer marrying Elizabeth BURT spinster, both of the parish.

(The register has several other marriages witnessed by a John PENGELLY ).

My inclination is to discount the St Looe marriage because this John is a labourer rather than working on the sea.

The gap between the 1801 marriage and the first known baptism is unusually long, so I think a hunt for other baptisms to fill the gap (possibly in fishing areas) is called for.  Unless of course there is another John-Elizabeth marriage which hasn't yet been found!

ADDED - a wild thought - the gap between marriage and first known child might be due to Naval service.  It's a long shot - but just possibly?

Philip

[philipsearching]

I have found a couple on 1851 census living in Looe ,John and Elizabeth Pengelly and then an Elizabeth Pengelly who is a widow in 1861,but wrong birthplace for the Elizabeth marrying in 1801 who was from Lansallos.

Is this the couple in 1851?
HO107/1903/200 p38
Back Street, Liskeard
John PENGELLY, head, 68, Trinity pilot, born West Looe
Elizabeth PENGELLY, wife, 69, born West Looe

Birthplaces given on censuses are not always reliable.

[NooshieW]

Thanks all, yes I wish I could find more children. It would help to identify the correct parents.
There is an Elizabeth Pengelly, school mistress aged 78, living next to a John Pengelly and family in Looe in 1861. Not sure who this is but she is born in Lanteglos near Fowey, not really the correct area and not near Talland.

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
I've had a think about those two marriages overnight.
The 1800 one has another witness Theophilus Pengelly
So could that John be the one baptised 4 April 1779 st Martin by Looe to Theophs Pengelly and Catherine?
The second one at Lansollos does say he is of Talland and a fisherman.

That would give us two John Pengellys -one born 1779 and one 1783.
The latter fits with the death and census info you have.Plus Elizabeth's parents are John and Martha Olford (bapt 12 Nov 1780), so it would fit that she'd name a child after her mother.

As for extra children there are-
John bapt 11 Jan 1801 at St Martin by Looe (must be from first 1800 marriage)
Elizabeth and William bapt 23 Oct 1803 d of John and Elizabeth at Lansallos (I assume 2nd 1801 marriage)
Elizabeth marries John Bartlett mariner at Talland 13 May 1834

Not sure what happened between 1803 and 1812 but there was an Independent Chapel in Looe.

Ciderdrinker

[NooshieW]

This is great and thanks very much.
I think I am leaning towards the school mistress and her son John as being my relatives.
The fact you have found a couple of other children helps too.