John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.

[Lionel-W]

On Monday I'll start sorting out all these people and adding them on to the family tree. It's getting more complicated from day to day and I'm not even going to start to ask who Macmillam and Borland are/were.

Lionel

Hi Everybody,

I've just spent the last 2 days developing an Excel sheet for the Scott family (it's much easier than trying to do it on Geni or MyHeritage or so and you can extend it in all directions putting in every detail you can find.) I've now put in everything you sent me, checking information where necessary etc. As of now "John Scott", father of my grandmother, was the son of Robert Scott, who had no less than 8 children! Must have been rich with nerves like steel ...

As of yet I haven't started to work through the names and find out what happened to them all. I've been using "ScotlandsPeople", but even there there "search and find" doesn't seem to function all the time. Which annoys me as well, having payed MyHeritage for access to their near 10 billion documents. They have none of the Scots censuses which I need and I couldn't even find my grandparents and father on the 1911 census in England (which I think Monica found for me - thanks!)

One question (at the moment) which I still have is that on the photos Lodger was kind enough to post, on the one tombstone one of the sons of Robert Scott sen. is given as "James". I have no James on my tree and there has been no reference to him. I have tried "ScotlandsPeople", but with no result. Anybody have an idea?

And, of course, I still have another question. On the photo of the grave stone for "Macmillam and Borland" the right side has been cut off, so that the name Macmillam is only half there. Normally this (not using capitals) would be MacMillam and I was wondering if it is in fact "MacMillan" as in Clan MacMillan. The reason for asking this, is that it was always stated that "we" belonged the Clan MacMillan, presumeably on my grandfather's side of the family; which can't be correct, his coming from Sunderland. So where does the information come from on the Scott's side?

Lionel

[Lodger]

Lionel, go back to the photographs and you will find a scroll bar at the bottom. Move it along and you will see the whole picture.
I'm not entirely satisfied that the picture I sent of Glencairn Lodge is the actual house. It may well have been the gatehouse. I will check this out on Thursday or Friday.
I would put all thoughts of a "clan" to the back of your mind for the moment. The clan system did not exist in the Lowlands of Scotland, despite what some foreigners say. As for the spelling of surnames, take your pick, they are all correct because they are all pronounced the same.

I've searched the cemetery records and James Scott doesn't seem to be buried anywhere in the cemetery, I read the date of death as 11th February 1896 and there isn't a corresponding interment.
He is in the old parochial register for New Monkland, born 25th February 1853. (correct parents).
There is a death in the St Andrew's district of Edinburgh in 1896 for a James Scott aged 48 years. I wonder if that could be him? The entry number is low, No.77, which would make sense for early February.
There is one for St Giles district of Edinburgh, aged 46 years but the entry number is 975 and there couldn't possibly have been almost a thousand deaths in one district in the first 6 or 7 weeks of the year.

[Lionel-W]

1901 entry has Thomas and Charlotte back in the household: Elizabeth Scott 48 Employer's Wife (stone Quarrier) b. Motherwell. Address: The Green, Cambusnethan Lanark. Monica thought this was the same family and wondered where John was ..This looks like him on the 1901 census address Hydropathic Moffat Dumfrieshire (must be some sort of hospital/clinic.)

Rosie

Hi - just for interest's sake:

Quote: "History of Moffat Town: Moffat is a former burgh and spa town in Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, lying on the River Annan, with a current population of around 2,500. It was during the 17th century that Moffat began to grow from a small village into a popular spa town. The sulphurous waters of Moffat Spa were believed to have healing properties and during the Victorian era the high demand led to the water being piped down from the well to a specially built bath house in the town centre (now the Town Hall). Luxurious hotels sprang up to accommodate the increasing numbers of tourists. One such hotel opened during Moffat’s heyday in 1878, Moffat’s Hydropathic hotel was destroyed in a fire in 1921.

Lionel

[Lionel-W]

I'm not entirely satisfied that the picture I sent of Glencairn Lodge is the actual house. It may well have been the gatehouse. I will check this out on Thursday or Friday.

I would put all thoughts of a "clan" to the back of your mind for the moment. The clan system did not exist in the Lowlands of Scotland, despite what some foreigners say. As for the spelling of surnames, take your pick, they are all correct because they are all pronounced the same.

I've searched the cemetery records and James Scott doesn't seem to be buried anywhere in the cemetery, I read the date of death as 11th February 1896 and there isn't a corresponding interment. He is in the old parochial register for New Monkland, born 25th February 1853. (correct parents).

Hi Lodger,

You may be right with the "Lodge", even though days were different I still don't know how so many family and 3 servants all fitted in there. But then, what happend to the Lodge itself?

Your comment to "clans" makes me feel like an American tourist on a bus tour to Culloden Field. The clan angle doesn't interest me so much, but here it's different. This obsession with the Clan MacMillian didn't come by chance and somebody must have dragged my father all the way from Wishaw into the photographers studio in 1910 and made him dress up in full tribal costume with a goldfish. (see photo). They did the same with me later ... On top of that my mother bought my first wife a long evening dress in clan hunting (blue/green) colours. This didn't all just happen by chance and there's more behind the issue.

Thanks for the new information as to James Scott and I'll follow it up. Yesterday a search request on WikiTree came in from sombody searching for a Margaret King (Scott) Black, father James Scott, no details, mother Helen Blackie Kerr. Others mentioned in that family are Jane Ormiston Scott and Isabella King (Scott) Gray. I've sent them an email and am waiting for a reply, but so many Scotts, Kings and a Gray is at least unusual.

Lionel

Lionel

[Lionel-W]

I would put all thoughts of a "clan" to the back of your mind for the moment. The clan system did not exist in the Lowlands of Scotland, despite what some foreigners say. As for the spelling of surnames, take your pick, they are all correct because they are all pronounced the same.

So if anybody wants something to chortle about, how about Yours-truely dressed up like Bonnie Prince Charlie in MacMillan clan tartan - unfortunately missing a Sgian Dubh. Everything was made from scratchy coarse wooly sheep and itched all over. Luckily I did not have to go to school wearing it, otherwise the term "mobbing" would have turned up years ago. But as you see, being a part of Clan MacMillan isn't something I just thought up. My first book to read at home was "A History of Scotland" with a large drawing of Robert the Bruce sitting in his cave muttering about spiders and the nasty English/French. I was fascinated!

Lionel

[Forfarian]

Hi - just for interest's sake:
Quote: "History of Moffat Town: Moffat is a former burgh and spa town in Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, lying on the River Annan, with a current population of around 2,500. It was during the 17th century that Moffat began to grow from a small village into a popular spa town. The sulphurous waters of Moffat Spa were believed to have healing properties and during the Victorian era the high demand led to the water being piped down from the well to a specially built bath house in the town centre (now the Town Hall). Luxurious hotels sprang up to accommodate the increasing numbers of tourists. One such hotel opened during Moffat’s heyday in 1878, Moffat’s Hydropathic hotel was destroyed in a fire in 1921.

Unfortunately this article does not contain the far more useful facts as far as family history are concerned, namely that Moffat is the principal town in the parish of the same name in the County of Dumfries.

You will fail if you look for historical records in 'Dumfries and Galloway' because 'Dumfries and Galloway' as a formally defined local authority area did not exist before 1975.

I recommend reading the articles in the Statistical Accounts of Scotland at https://stataccscot.edina.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/parish/Dumfries/Moffat if you are interested in the history of Moffat, rather than the rather superficial and too recent article you have quoted.

Even the Wikipedia article is more comprehensive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moffat

[Lionel-W]

Hi - just for interest's sake:
Luxurious hotels sprang up to accommodate the increasing numbers of tourists. One such hotel opened during Moffat’s heyday in 1878, Moffat’s Hydropathic hotel was destroyed in a fire in 1921.

Unfortunately this article does not contain the far more useful facts as far as family history are concerned.

Hi, you're certainly right as regards "Moffat" goes, but my intention was only to clarify what a Hydropathic Hotel was, as other members here (to include myself) didn't know what it was or why it had such a strange name. And just by chance I found the short explanation.

[Forfarian]

There were Hydros (short for Hydropathic Hotel) in several places in Scotland - Forres, Crieff, Strathpeffer, Dunblane spring to mind - and also in England. All of them were hotels where people went to 'take the waters' - corresponding to spas in contintental Europe. Most of them were large buildings with a lot of accommodation and many still operate as large hotels.

[Lionel-W]

Hi Everybody,

I've just spent the last 2 days developing an Excel sheet for the Scott family (it's much easier than trying to do it on Geni or MyHeritage or so and you can extend it in all directions putting in every detail you can find.) I've now put in everything you sent me, checking information where necessary etc. As of now "John Scott", father of my grandmother, was the son of Robert Scott, who had no less than 8 children! Must have been rich with nerves like steel ...

Lionel

Hi!

And now a year has passed since this last comment and I'm still working on it. Amazing what all the help I received has led to - thanks again everyone, especially to "Lodger".

When I started last year I had just found out the correct name of my grandmother and the first name of her father. In the meantime, we're back to John Scott (1781) and Agnes (Brownlie) Scott (1791) and their sons James (who I still can't find later than 1841) and Robert, leading up to the present day. The problem now is that although I've even found the wedding of my grandmother in Wishaw and the fact that my father was born there in "The Green" in 1906, John Scott, reported in the paper as "Col. Scott, V.D, V.C, J.P.", just disappeared after the wedding. And that, despite the fact that he was obviously very well known. Most members have also disappeared, while others I've found are difficult to identify due to multiple names being used - so my "Auntie Lottie of my first years was probably "Charlotte Elizabeth Snell King". It's frustrating to know that there must be whole families out there and I still can't find even one connection to the present day which would fill in the rest of the story.

But here is the newspaper report of the wedding to include a special train from Glasgow for the guests (original attached):

Sunderland Daily Echo Monday, 12.09.1904 - Marriage of Mr Gladstone Bell.
Mr William Ewart Gladstone Bell, the youngest son of our townsman Mr. Stephenson Bell, was married on Saturday afternoon to Miss Mary Scott, second daughter of Col. Scott, V.D, V.C, J.P., of Auchenlen, and North Shaws, and the Green, Wishaw, Scotland. The wedding took place at Wishaw, which was en fete for the occasion, the whole village being beautified and decorated. A special train from Glasgow conveyed a number of the guests and the wedding party was a large one. The ceremony was performed by the Rev. Alex. Harper, M.A., in the Parish Church. This had been specially decorated for the wedding, and when the party assembled the site was a very pretty one. The bride's dress consisted of white crepe de Chine trimmed with Brussels lace, and having a court train of white satin. It was very prettily decorated. She wore a Brussels lace veil, and a wreath of orange blossom and myrtle, and carried a bouquet of white heather and lilies of the valley. She was attended by seven bridesmaids, and was given away by her father, Col. Scott. Mr. Edward A. Scott, of Liverpool, acted as groomsman. Special music was rendered in the church, and when the bridal pair and wedding party returned to the home of the bride's parents they were preceded up the drive by Highland pipers playing lively tunes. Subsequently a reception was held at the Green, and was attended by many guests anxious to express their good wishes for the welfare of the newly married pair. A string band performed in the grounds, and at night a dance was held. The bride and bridegroom left at five o'clock to proceed on their wedding tour among the Italian lakes. The bride's travelling dress was of heliotrope voile, trimmed with apple-green velvet. Her hat was of white beaver, trimmed with heliotrope and having white tulle strings. The pair were the recipients of about 230 handsome presents."

Hope this is of interest to somebody!

Lionel