Author Topic: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.  (Read 10283 times)

Offline rosie17

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 17 July 19 18:58 BST (UK) »
This might be a possibility on the 1891 census Hamilton Road Maryfield Dalziel
John Scott age 40 born Airdrie  occupation quarry master
Eliza Scott age 38 born Motherwell
Robert Scott 14 b Motherwell
Mary Scott 12 b Motherwell
Eliza Scott 8 b Motherwell
Catherine Scott 4 b Hamilton
Alice Scott 2 b Hamilton

There is also some nieces and nephews surname Thomson in the house with this family

Charlotte and Thomas K Scott are visitors at the home of their Aunt Mary Ann Whamond &William
Whamond  on the 1891 census in Jarrow South Shields

William Whamond married M.A.King 1866 Dalziel Lanarkshire

Rosie

 

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 17 July 19 22:27 BST (UK) »
That 1891 census looks likely, Rosie. 1901 entry has Thomas and Charlotte back in the household:

Elizabeth Scott 48 Employer's Wife (stone Quarrier) b. Motherwell
Thomas H Scott 24
Lottia Scott 23
Maude Scott 14
Alice Scott 12
Jean Davis 16 Visitor
...and four servants

Address: The Green, Cambusnethan Lanark

The only possible death I can see with the Scott/King surname combination for Elizabeth is this one:

Elizabeth Snell Scott, other surname King died at the age of 65 in 1918 in Skelmorlie, Ayrshire

There was a reference early on here to a middle initial of S for Elizabeth King so Snell would fit.

Monica
   
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 17 July 19 22:31 BST (UK) »
From the Wills & Testament database on Scotlands People, there is this entry:

Elizabeth Snell Scott
3/6/1919
or King, Rathmore, Lenzie, d. 16/05/1918 at Skelmorlie, testate.
Glasgow Sheriff Court Wills
SC36/51/183

Second document (Inventory) indexed with ref: SC36/48/298

Monica
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Offline Lodger

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 17 July 19 22:45 BST (UK) »

"This might be a possibility on the 1891 census Hamilton Road Maryfield Dalziel"

This address would make more sense as "Maryfield", Hamilton Road, Motherwell. Parish of Dalziel.
Maryfield would have been the name of the house, which may still be there. These people were very wealthy and lived in some of the grandest houses in the town. The Green was a very large villa in Wishaw. (Parish of Cambusnethan).
Skelmorlie was where the well-off retired to for the summer months (or places like Helensburgh or Largs).
Whamond, in the 19th century, was also a very prominent name here in Motherwell. Alexander Whamond (I don't think he was a native of the town) was the Dominie at Dalziel Public School, (he taught my great-grandfather) he was also, for a time, the registrar for Dalziel parish, as well as the author of several novels.

Paterson, Torrance, Gilchrist - Hamilton Lanarkshire. 
McCallum - Oban, McKechnie - Ross of Mull Argyll.
Scrim - Perthshire. 
Liddell - Polmont,
Binnie - Muiravonside Stirlingshire.
Curran, McCafferty, Stevenson, McCue - Co Donegal
Gibbons, Weldon - Co Mayo.
Devlin - Co Tyrone.
Leonard - County Donegal & Glasgow.


Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 17 July 19 22:46 BST (UK) »
Memento-Mori shows Elizabeth and daughter Charlotte's burial place at Auld Isle Cemetery and Burial Ground in Kirkintilloch Dunbartonshire. The fact that they are listed indicates that there remains a gravestone on the plot(s).

www.memento-mori.co.uk/3.pdf

Elizabeth and daughter Charlotte and a granddaughter

Elizabeth Snell Scott (King) 1918
Charlotte King Scott 1966
Elizabeth King Scott 1974

There is a John Scott showing there for 1932, but no age still showing on the gravestone likely.

Monica




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Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 17 July 19 23:01 BST (UK) »
Mmm...think John Scott may have predeceased Elizabeth.

From the Calendar of Confirmations and Inventories, National Probate Index, Scotland, Confirmation was granted to her daughter Charlotte Elizabeth Snell Scott or Smith residing as Ingleholm, South Beach, Troon and her son, Robert Henry Brownlie Scott at 33 Kelvinhaugh Street Glasgow. Her estate was valued at £1186.

Monica


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Offline Lodger

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 18 July 19 08:59 BST (UK) »
I think it's time we paused for breath Monica!  We have heard nothing from the original poster of this thread and, like so often in the past, we may not hear anything else. We may never know if our research has been useful, duplicated or even appreciated!
Paterson, Torrance, Gilchrist - Hamilton Lanarkshire. 
McCallum - Oban, McKechnie - Ross of Mull Argyll.
Scrim - Perthshire. 
Liddell - Polmont,
Binnie - Muiravonside Stirlingshire.
Curran, McCafferty, Stevenson, McCue - Co Donegal
Gibbons, Weldon - Co Mayo.
Devlin - Co Tyrone.
Leonard - County Donegal & Glasgow.

Offline Lionel-W

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 18 July 19 09:40 BST (UK) »
Hi!

To answer everybody - 'Lodger', 'Forfarian', 'Monica' and Rosie' - individually, after having received such a wealth of information within such a short time, is difficult. So I'll try it this way: Thank you all so very, very much for the intensive work you've done to assist me. It's absolutely amazing what you've found out, which is far more than I had in any way expected. I've copied all the information into a Word file and will now start to sieve through all the details provided and try to find the connections within the different families. Difficulty is, of course, that not only first names, but also last names, are continually repeated in the coming  generations. So, for example, my grandmother "Mary Pennycuik Whamond Bell (Scott)" has taken her name from relatives in the past. And then of course, because of this, parallel to the immediate family, cousins often had the same first and last names.

Back in February of this year I got in touch with my  cousin on my mother's side of the family who has been building a tree on Geni. The information I had at this time,  as reported by my parents and as such considered to be true, was that my father had been born in February 1906 in Bearsden, Glasgow, his parents being William Ewart Gladstone Bell and Mary Bell, both from Scotland. The family then emigrated to Australia where my grandfather became a successful cellist and professor at the Sydney Conservatorium of Music. My father, John Stevenson Bell, later returned to Scotland and never saw Gladstone again. That, at least, was the story as told to me and my mother. In 1975 the second son of my grandfather (he married three times, after Mary, a student, Muriel, 25 years younger and later another student, Joan, 36 years younger!) maintained that my grandfather had not come from Scotland, but had been born in Sunderland, England (Scandal!) which my mother refused to accept. This has however now been proved, together with a lot of information which has changed the entire situation. Apparently, for career reasons, my grandfather first changed his accent from Sunderland brogue to Oxford English and then to Scots, always referring to his 2nd. son as "Laddie". The second time was possibly by chance, having lived in Scotland for some years.

Gladstone, born in 1881 was, as we have now found out, considered a boy wonder as a musician, cello, making his first appearance in London before the Lord Mayor of London at the age of 14. He then went on to teach music in Edinburgh and Glasgow prior to 1902, studied music for two years in Germany at age 21 and later played in famous orchestras in London and elsewhere. He probably married Mary in 1904. In London he was offered a six month contract to appear in the "Exhibition" in Christchurch, New Zealand in 1906 and 1907. He arrived there no later than October 1906, remained for almost 3 years and first arrived in Sydney, Australia in 1909. According to his second son he made various trips back to Great Britain, of which I know nothing and I never met him. Considering that my father was born in February 1906 and the journey to New Zealand took about 50 days, Gladstone must have left his first wife Mary only months after the birth of my father. In no way did the family "emigrate to Australia", as I and my mother were informed, nor was it ever mentioned that he had at any time been in New Zealand; something only found out a month or so ago. Also, my father was not born in Bearsden, but in actual fact in Wishaw, possibly even in Daziel, and nothing suggests that he or his mother Mary left Scotland before 1911; two photos of my father wearing a kilt at approximately age 5 were taken in a professional photographers studio in Glasgow around 1910. As far as I know, we had no contact to my grandmother's family or either to my grandmother herself, who died when I was 6; they just didn't exist and my grandfather was merely a name in the distance, who had left and never returned. I still don't know the reason for all these lies and deceptions, but thanks to you all I'm getting deeper and deeper into finding out what actually happened! Thank you all again.

Lionel W. Bell

Scott (Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland) and Bell (Sunderland, Durham, England)

Offline Lionel-W

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 18 July 19 09:45 BST (UK) »
I think it's time we paused for breath Monica!  We have heard nothing from the original poster of this thread and, like so often in the past, we may not hear anything else. We may never know if our research has been useful, duplicated or even appreciated!

Hi Lodger - hold on, I'm only human, got up at 7:00 am this morning and started to answer this at 9:00 am! Thanks again - Lionel
Scott (Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland) and Bell (Sunderland, Durham, England)