Author Topic: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.  (Read 10300 times)

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #99 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 19:10 BST (UK) »
He certainly is referenced in a number of places as being a JP  :-\ From the 1903, Part 1 - Slater's Royal National Commercial Directory of Scotland ... https://digital.nls.uk/directories/browse/archive/90689773?mode=transcription

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #100 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 19:17 BST (UK) »
...we now have the name of the son-in-law - R. W. Smith - which has always been missing.


These looks to be their wedding details:

Charlotte E S K Scott and Robert W Smith
Marriage License 27 Mar 1914 in Manhattan, New York City, New York, USA

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Lionel-W

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #101 on: Thursday 30 July 20 08:21 BST (UK) »
...we now have the name of the son-in-law - R. W. Smith - which has always been missing.


These looks to be their wedding details:

Charlotte E S K Scott and Robert W Smith
Marriage License 27 Mar 1914 in Manhattan, New York City, New York, USA

Monica

You did it again, Monica - thanks! I wonder if they were just visiting or if the daughters Elizabeth and Nora were born there - I haven't even their dates of birth, but now I'll have a look in the USA.

Lionel
Scott (Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland) and Bell (Sunderland, Durham, England)

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #102 on: Thursday 30 July 20 16:16 BST (UK) »
With the reference to the NY marriage for Charlotte, tried to confirm any further details for Charlotte  but not really seeing anything so far.

We believe she and husband Robert were in Glasgow c. 1932 when father John Scott died at their residence (from the Glasgow Herald clip). We also have a reference on the gravestone in Kirkintilloch. However, without confirmimg, I assumed too much (which I normally don't  ::)).

We had the following details:


Memento-Mori shows Elizabeth and daughter Charlotte's burial place at Auld Isle Cemetery and Burial Ground in Kirkintilloch Dunbartonshire. The fact that they are listed indicates that there remains a gravestone on the plot(s).

www.memento-mori.co.uk/3.pdf

Elizabeth and daughter Charlotte and a granddaughter

Elizabeth Snell Scott (King) 1918
Charlotte King Scott 1966
Elizabeth King Scott 1974

There is a John Scott showing there for 1932, but no age still showing on the gravestone likely.


Death details for Elizabeth, mother, have been confirmed.

Whilst Charlotte is mentioned on the stone, I cannot see a corresponding death entry on the index on SP for 1966. Died elsewhere? There may be more details on the stone itself. Remember the details from memento-mori are just from the index.

The Elizabeth King Scott showing on the stone I think looks to be Charlotte's sister likely. I don't think she married as there is no corresponding second surname on the index:

ELIZABETH KING SCOTT
Age 91
1974
621/ 859
Glasgow, Park Circus

Cert would need to checked to verify this is correct... ::)

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #103 on: Thursday 30 July 20 16:37 BST (UK) »

THE WISHAW PRESS AND ADVERTISER. DEATH OF COLONEL JOHN SCOTT

... PRESS AND ADVERTISER. DEATH OF COLONEL JOHN SCOTT Former Commander of Scottish Ridge Battalion The death of Colonel John Scott, late of Rathmore. Lenzie, removes of the diminishing band of old Volunteer ...

Friday 08 July 1932

www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk

Maybe his obit could include further details on his children?

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Lionel-W

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #104 on: Friday 31 July 20 12:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Monica,

I think somewhere in here we have a mistake. You didn't tell me where you obtained the information to the marriage of Charlotte E. S. K. Scott and Robert W. Smith, so I can't yet check it, but I'm sure it's correct. What I'm not sure about, is the date of marriage in 1914. Charlotte was born in 1878 and at the time of her marriage, would have been 36 years of age. This is rather old, even now, to start having children, but she went on to have two daughters. As stated, I met "Betty" Smith and Nora Meadows in Johannesburg, South Africa, in 1968 and both were around 65 years of age. Not old and demented, but certainly not 53 years or younger, which they should have been, given that they were born later than 1915.   But they were certainly the daughters of Charlotte, as proved by the telegram to  my parents received in 1944 at my birth (Auntie Lottie with Betty and Nora, 54, Belmont Street, Glasgow).

In addition, while talking to them, they recounted that their grandfather's sister - (Mary Scott King,  born 1855), had married "a man" (presumably Alexander C. King, born 1867) who was 10 years younger than she. And he never even found out! (I suppose this says something for knitting your own nightdresses from scratchy woolly Cambusnethan sheep!) In any case, they were definitely Charlotte's daughters and I would suppose  that both were in their late 60s at the time . Is it possible therefore that the marriage took place in New York in 1904 and not in 1914?

According to the information I've collected, John Scott married Elizabeth Snell King, (b. 1852 in Dalziel) on  22.06.1875 and who died 16.05.1918 in Skelmorlie, Ayrshire, buried Kirkintilloch, East Dunbartonshire. As you've already suggested, she died before John Scott (d. 1932 in Glasgow at the house of his son-in-law Robert W. Smith). However, the obituary you sent me from the newspaper, states that he was "late of Rathmore, Lenzie" which is only five minutes from Kirkintilloch. Your other remark, on the death of Elizabeth King Scott at the age of 91, agrees with being the sister of my grandmother Mary and of Charlotte, who was born in 1883 and in 1944 was also living with the others in Glasgow.

As regards the obituary of John Scott in the Whishaw Press, I shall have to see if I can access this on My Heritage or Find My Past. But I've read the same text elsewhere, I think military, and there was no further information of any value. However the search functions of My Heriatge are absolutely catastrophic. Some months ago I put in a search for the obituary of a relative in the local newspaper "Sydney Morning Herald" in Sydney, Australia on September 9th 1950, publication date. I had already found it on an Australian newspaper website. My Heritage came up with 628,510 results, over 100,000 from no layter than 1922 in the USA and a further 40,000 in Pennsylvania, USA. I would then have had to gone through the remaining over almost 300,000 possibilities in Australian newspapers. Just makes me sick having to pay for something which doesn't work even when the information is there.

So now we are all up to date again - thanks for all the trouble you're going to!

Lionel
Scott (Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland) and Bell (Sunderland, Durham, England)

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #105 on: Friday 31 July 20 22:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Lionel

The marriage details I found on the New York, Marriage License Indexes, 1907-2018 on Ancestry. Just indexes, no original images unfortunately which is a pity.

If Charlotte and daughters were in Glasgow in the mid 1940s, wonder where Charlotte actually died?

Regarding locating the obit from the local paper for John Scott in 1932. If you have a subs to Find My Past, depending on what type of subscription you have, you can view the British Newspaper site for free with their subs as it is one of the databases they have.

If you don't, you could sign up for free to www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk You get free access to search and can view up to 3 pages. After this, you have to have a subscription or buy units to view.

In respect of "late of Rathmore, Lenzie", I would think they had a house in Lenzie for some time given it is also mentioned in wife Elizabeth's death notice in 1918. I would guess 'Rathmore' may be the name of their house in Lenzie.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Forfarian

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #106 on: Friday 31 July 20 22:54 BST (UK) »
The 1920 valuation roll on SP has John Scott listed as proprietor occupier of a house called Rathmore in Victoria Road, parish of Cadder, Lanarkshire.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #107 on: Friday 31 July 20 23:05 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Forfarian. That looks like it don't you think?

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk