Author Topic: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.  (Read 10287 times)

Offline Lionel-W

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 18 July 19 15:18 BST (UK) »
Hi Everybody,

I'm getting swamped with information! Thank you and thanks for offering more assistance, it's really appreciated. I'm not exactly on "the other side of the world", but Germany's still too far from Scotland to do any "on-site" work and one problem with answering quickly is also the 1 hour time shift, meaning that I'm suffering from jet-lag when I get up in the morning!

I see I've made a spelling mistake and this has caused problems here. The correct name of my grandmother was "Mary Pennycuik Whamond Bell (Scott)", but I dictate most of what I write into the computer and if I slur my words they come out wrong; like with "Whapole" instead of "Whamond". And then other problems in newspaper reports with "Pennycuik" being spelled as "Pennycook" and "Pennycock" in newspaper divorce reports in Sydney, Australia. Even the burial broschure from 1950 I have has the name spelled incorrectly.

I have a lot of questions, but will need a few days to catch up on these. So don't think I've forgotten, but I'm also getting replies from the New Zealand government, my half-uncle Adrian in Australia and other sources. Just for amusement, a little while ago, I wrote a fictitious story as to what "could" have happened way back in 1906. Adrian thought it was good and that Gladstone would have been chuffed at playing the role of a 'Lothario' (yes, I had to look it up as well!), but that his mother Joan (no. 3 on the list!") would have remarked "how very silly". Good that she won't be on this year's Pulitzer Prize" jury! I'll hang it on here and I hope it works. Please read page 4 first with an explanation to the story.

Lionel



Scott (Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland) and Bell (Sunderland, Durham, England)

Offline Lionel-W

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 18 July 19 15:38 BST (UK) »
Lionel, you mentioned Gladstone (as you have referred to him) arriving in NZ no later that October 1906. You were pretty close! I think this is him arriving in Australia in September that year:

William Bell, 25, a musician
Arrival 10 Sep 1906 Sydney, Australia
Departure Port: Liverpool
Ship: Persic
Nationality: British

Monica

Thanks Monica! This is very probably indeed himself (William always used the name 'Gladstone' and was called 'Gladdie' by his friends) and he must have then carried on to New Zealand. I haven't been able to find any passenger lists, but as you obviously have access, perhaps you can please see if he was travelling alone or with Mary and my father?

Lionel
Scott (Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland) and Bell (Sunderland, Durham, England)

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 18 July 19 16:44 BST (UK) »
Lionel, did Mary have more children with Gladstone in Scotland? If they did, and they were born in NZ, what is the first recorded year you have for a birth there.

Bell is a pretty common surname so anything we can do to try and narrow down year range always helps.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Lionel-W

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 18 July 19 17:14 BST (UK) »
Lionel, did Mary have more children with Gladstone in Scotland? If they did, and they were born in NZ, what is the first recorded year you have for a birth there.

Bell is a pretty common surname so anything we can do to try and narrow down year range always helps.

Monica

Hi - After having commented, I remembered having found something similar on a passenger list. Travelling with William Bell was his wife Mary and my 'transvestite' father "Annie" who was under 1 year old! It must be coincidence, but possibly tickets for girl babies cost less than for male babies; so they just changed his clothes from blue to pink and his name from "John" to "Annie"! But to be serious, Mary only had one child and if you'd met my father you would certainly know why ...

Lionel

Lionel
Scott (Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland) and Bell (Sunderland, Durham, England)


Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 18 July 19 21:37 BST (UK) »
Not much info to work from on this entry other than ages would fit:

Mrs Bell 36
Master J Bell 9

Left on the 'Arabia' from London and arrived on 24 Dec 1915 at Sydney, Australia.

Further entry for the same two people on the'Arabia' departure from Liverpool and Portland and arrival at  Fremantle Western Australia Australia on 8 Dec 1915.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 18 July 19 21:45 BST (UK) »
See what you mean about how much William liked the use of the name Gladstone...

The family in London for 1911 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW4H-ZJ7:

Mr Gladston Bell 29 Professor of Music b. Sunderland, Durham
Mrs Gladston Bell 31 b. Motherwell, Lanarkshire
J S Bell 5 son b. Wishaw, Lanarkshire

Address 22 Victoria Mansions, Grange Rd, Willesden Green Middlesex

They show as married for 7 years and only one child in the marriage.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 18 July 19 21:57 BST (UK) »
This entry from Jan 1911 mentions that Gladstone is due back in Sydney in a few months following a trip to Europe https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15246845

The 1911 census was on the night of 2 April.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rosie17

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 18 July 19 22:03 BST (UK) »
Good find Monica  ;)
A record for a John S Bell age 22 ( motor represtentive )
Departure Sidney Australia
Arrival Hull 21 April 1928
Ship Largs Bay
Proposed address in U K c/o AG.Gen  for NSW Aust House London

Rosie

Offline Lionel-W

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Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« Reply #35 on: Friday 19 July 19 09:28 BST (UK) »
Morning! It's raining outside and I'll try to go back and answer each individual posting here, starting with the first. May take some time, as I have to check on everything.

On top of that, as Lodger said at the start "or, as some people tend to do here, do research for you that you are capeable of doing by yourself." I have done a lot of personal searching and some information coming through has now been duplicated. This refers mainly to newspaper reports in New Zealand (1906 - 1909) and Australia from 1911 to the present day. The New Zealand government first gave me these leads and the only extra information I now need about Gladstone pertains to possible voyages (uncle Adrian mentions stories from his mother to these, but didn't bother to listen at the time) to and from Europe for Gladstone after 1911 and also to his arrival in New Zealand in 1906 for the "Exhibition" starting in November.

Just as extra information, Gladstone is mentioned as having joined the Australian Army in 1941 (age 62), serving on the east coast and later somewhere near Darwin on the north coast. They threw him out at age 65, only for him to find that his wife had been cheating on him with somebody from the Red Cross. On a "never-give-up" baisis, this gave him the welcome opportunity to start an affair with later wife no. 3, Joan - Adrian being born when he was 73! My father was so disgusted he didn't speak for 3 days, though my mother found the situation "very amusing", which angered my father even further. My father died shortly before meeting Adrian, probably for the best, considering that out-of-work, long-haired hippies playing guitars in the shade of coolabah trees was not one of his ideals!

Lionel

Scott (Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland) and Bell (Sunderland, Durham, England)