Author Topic: Aran/Aaron Evans where was he in 1939 and what happened to him  (Read 9574 times)

Online KGarrad

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Re: Aran/Aaron Evans where was he in 1939 and what happened to him
« Reply #45 on: Monday 30 December 19 19:38 GMT (UK) »
The 1911 census asks for how many COMPLETE years the current marriage has lasted ;D

So an answer of 16 years implies a marriage between April 1894 and April 1895 (the anniversary dates of the census).

Of course, they may not have married at all - just lived together.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Talacharn

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Re: Aran/Aaron Evans where was he in 1939 and what happened to him
« Reply #46 on: Monday 30 December 19 20:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi KGarrad,
I searched a coulpe of years either side and nothing. I did question if they actually married, as  proof would not be required. In making up a marriage, it needs to be before the first born. It must be a challenge for the person collecting, in entering large Gipsy encampments, or even asking individual families, as Daniel and Catherine were in several newspaper articles for fighting.

Some of the closed records of the 1939 Register, could be males continuing the Evans name, or even Cartherine W Evans. My great-grandparents Thomas and Martha Jane Williams, to my knowledge, had five children; Martha Jane (married Aran), Thomas (grandfather married Maggie Brown), John William (died WW1), Violet May (who I do not think married) and Elizabeth Florence. When Martha Jane Williams married Daniel Evans, her age would be around 47.

The marriage certificate of Daniel Evans and Martha Jane Williams
26 Nov 1917 . Register Office Carmarthen
Daniel Evans . 47 . Widower . Public Amusement Caterer . Van Carmarthen Park . Father: Edward Evans (Deceased) . Basket Maker
Martha Jane Williams . 46 . Widow . Fruiterer . Ivy Bush Inn, Market Street, Haverfordwest . Father: Thomas Richards . Railway Porter
Witnesses: J J Surnes and  F E Rossason. [unsure of that name]

Regarding Catherine W Evans marriage Oct-Dec 1929 and registered in Swansea, I do not see how she is a daughter of Aran/Dan or John Evans, as the dates do not add up for her to be old enough to marry.

Aran and Martha Jane seem to have married and lived in Carmarthen, though by 1939 I do not know where he was living, aged around 45 years. Martha Jane though, is recorded as still being married. As for John, I do not know what happened to him. Daniel Evans may have fathered other children, if Martha Jane (wife number 2) died, but I cannot find for certain a death. In 1939, he is in the Living Van, parked at Carmarthen, with another woman and others, with their records closed.

If only those records could be opened.

Offline Talacharn

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Re: Aran/Aaron Evans where was he in 1939 and what happened to him
« Reply #47 on: Thursday 02 January 20 19:23 GMT (UK) »
I have a few issues and wondered it members could shed some light on them.
On the 1891 Census record, I found this family, but I need other records to confirm my thoughts that it is the right one. I would like to find them on the 1881 Census, as there are gaps for other children. At that time, having only one child seems strange, but nothing on Family Search.

1891 Census . Garn Road . Llanfinhangel Aberbythych, Llandilofawr, Carmarthenshire . Town Cathilas
Edwin Evans . 41 . 1850 . Tinplate Worker . Gipsy . Brecon . English
Zibiah Evans . 40 . 1851 . Basket Maker . Gipsy . Hereford . English
Daniel Evans . Son . 20 . 1871 . Single . Tinplate Worker . Gipsy . Carmarthenshire . English
Perrin B Williams . Nephew . 17 . 1874 . Single. Tinplate Worker . Aberavon, Glamorganshire . English
RG12 . Piece 4512 . Folio 93 . Page 17

In the second marriage of Daniel, his father’s name is given as Edward. At present, I have not been able to find his first marriage.

I could not find the town Cathilas on modern or old maps, though Gorslas may fit in that areas; and some towns servicing industry could well have disappeared.

Zibiah is a Hebrew girl's name and I could only find a few births, with this one being the closest to year and birthplace. If they were travellers, it might not have been registered when and where born.
Oct-Dec 1852 . Zibiah Barber . Leominster . 6a . 461
I cannot find a marriage.

Perrin (boy) is of English derivation, and an alternate form of Perkin (English): variation of Peter. I found two mentions of a baptism, but no official record on the GRO database. Any suggestions?

Baptism: Perrin Brookes Williams
01 Dec 1872 . Aberavon, Glamorganshire
Digital Folder Number: 004378199

Baptism: Perrin Brookes Williams
1872 . Aberavon, Glamorgan
Father's Name: Samuel Williams . Basket Maker
Mother's Name: Gravalina

I cannot find this family, mainly because of the name Gravalina which is not listed as a name. If it is a typo, I am stumped as to what it should be. As they were travellers, where the baptism took place, may not be where they are living at the time of any Census.


Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Aran/Aaron Evans where was he in 1939 and what happened to him
« Reply #48 on: Thursday 02 January 20 19:43 GMT (UK) »
Did you spot the Trelech ar Bettws baptism of Agnes Williams, April 13th 1868, parents Samson** and Gravelina, abode Trelech chiefly Neath (?), father basket maker.

Agnes aged 13 mths at baptism

** the original entry reads Samuel but has been amended to Samson. There are other Williams baptisms on same page which may be linked?


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Re: Aran/Aaron Evans where was he in 1939 and what happened to him
« Reply #49 on: Thursday 02 January 20 19:57 GMT (UK) »
Parish of Trelech ar Bettws
Isabella Williams, 24 Jan 1869, abode Llwynrhyd Trelech Pro Tem, parents Samson and Gravelina, father basket maker.

Offline chempat

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Offline chempat

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Offline Talacharn

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Re: Aran/Aaron Evans where was he in 1939 and what happened to him
« Reply #52 on: Thursday 02 January 20 20:43 GMT (UK) »
Thanks,
I will check them out in the library tomorrow as at home I only use Family Search and need to read the originals. I started this search following my father’s side in being Williams and suspect the Williams and Evans families go back generations with marriages between. This search is presently taking me further away from my direct lineage, but I am just intrigued by the lifestyle and it may take me in a circle back to my direct family.

Llanfihangel-Aberbythych makes sense with them being travelling people. I looked on Genuki, but was not aware of ukga.org. As for Gravelena, I searched online, but that page is amazing. I have bookmarked both pages for further reference.

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Re: Aran/Aaron Evans where was he in 1939 and what happened to him
« Reply #53 on: Thursday 02 January 20 21:22 GMT (UK) »
There's a Gravalina Lee on the 1861 Census - age 14, daughter of Samson Lee, basket maker.

Isabella Williams was baptised 24 Jan 1869, Agnes Williams April 13 1868 - aged 13 months.

GRO birth registrations which "fit" the above - reg districts apart - are

Agnes Williams, Mar Qtr 1867, Pont y pridd, 11a 295 - mother's maiden name Lee
Isabella Williams, Dec Qtr 1868, Pembroke, 11a 755 - mother's maiden name Lee

Given the family were travellers - possibilities???