Joseph Septimus Carr - who is he?

[cafetiere]

Here's the baptismal record from Ancestry. And she married 11 days later.

[Maiden Stone]

Sorry, just remembered a key bit of information. On Mary Ellen's baptismal certificate, her dob is 27 November 1870. The baptism is dated 2 May 1896 which is why I'd scrolled past it earlier as presumed the age didn't fit. So, earlier censuses with Mary E as 4 in 1871 may refer to a previous child?

These are the children of Thomas & Catherine whom we have found with mother's maiden surname Lambert.
Joseph Septimus Irving registered 1863 J Quarter West Derby & Toxteth Park
Mary Ellen Irvine registered 1866  D Quarter Haslingden (Newchurch sub-district)
Annie Irvine registered 1870 M Quarter                          (Newchurch sub-district)
Thomas Teaby Irvine born 5th November 1871 according to his baptism at Waterfoot church.
Elizabeth Ann Carr born 31st May 1875 according to baptism in Liverpool.  NB. Mother's name is Emma on baptism.
Clara Carr born 14th Feb 1877 according to baptism. NB Mother's name on baptism record Maria.

 Annie may have been born in last quarter of 1869 or first quarter of 1870. Not much time for another birth between her and Thomas. The family seem to be settled in Newchurch area in those years.

Deaths:
Joseph Septimus Irvine age 3 Newchurch 1867  (Burial is on LANOPC)
Annie Irvine age 0 Newchurch 1870     GRO Ref: 1870 M Quarter Haslingden volume 08E page 98
 
So Annie, born either last quarter of 1869 or 1st quarter of 1870, died when a baby.
Thomas Teeby Irvine was born too late in 1871 to be on 1871 census and was not with the family on 1881 census so may have died. If he died in Rossendale his death would have been registered as Irvine but if his death was after the family returned to Liverpool it may have been registered as Irvine or Carr. (I'm having problems with GRO site.)

The surviving daughters on census:
1871 Mary E. Irvine age 4, born Newchurch
1881 Mary Ellen Carr age 14 born Rossendale; Elizabeth Ann Carr age 5, born Liverpool; Clara Carr age 4, born Liverpool
1891 Elizabeth Ann Carr age 15, born Liverpool; Clara Carr age 14, born Liverpool. (Mary Ellen not present)
Mary Ellen's ages and birthplace(s) were consistent on 1871 & 1881 censuses with the birth registration of Mary Ellen Irvine in Newchurch sub-district of Haslingden registration district in December Quarter of 1866. The only thing different is that the surname has changed to Carr on 1881 census. 
The birthplace of Bacup  for Mary Ellen (on another record?) is also consistent with Newchurch and Rossendale. Newchurch, Waterfoot and Bacup are all in the ancient Forest of Rossendale and in the present Borough of Rossendale. Newchurch and Bacup are only about 2 miles apart as the crow flies and Tunstead, abode of Thomas Irvine's household in a church register, is between the 2 places. Newchurch Old Road, not far from the Tunstead area and now part of the Irwell Valley Way, leads to Bacup.
Mary Ellen may have been "economical" with her age if she was a spinster nearly 30. What age was she at marriage? How old was her husband? More than one of my female ancestors  subtracted a couple of years when she married -  husband being a bit younger. One was born around same time as your Mary Ellen. Mine had a younger sister with the same first name so it was easy to confuse them.

[mckha489]

I think this might be Thomas ‘ s death

Deaths Jun 1874   (>99%)
CARR    Thomas Tivy    2    W. Derby    8b   380   

Buried Rice Lane, Walton, Liverpool 12 May 1874
Abode 21 Ct, Jubilee Street

[Maiden Stone]

My previous post has appeared as all quote. 
Mary Ellen might have been born on 27th November but not on 1870 if she was who we think she was.
If she was born 1870 she should have been on 1871 census as a baby. There have been errors with age of a baby recorded or transcribed in years instead of months but I think it was uncommon. She would have been on 1881 census as 10 years old.
1896 might have been the first time that Mary Ellen had been asked for her age and date of birth.

[cafetiere]

Thanks again. Yes, she may well have fudged her age a bit.

I think I've found her on the 1891 census as a servant for a William Ramsden. She's listed as being born in Bacup on that one.

[mckha489]

You could edit your post to get it out of quote, but I realised and read it OKl thank you for that summary.

I think you are right, Mary Ellen is older than her husband so has knocked some years off and then she stuck with it.

1891 when she is a servant her age is consistent with the birth we think is her.  And gives place as Bacup, knocks a couple of years off for baptism and marriage and it’s official!

[cafetiere]

Thank you. I'm not sure I'd have made sense of Mary Ellen's info without all of your help.

Quick checks of Catherine Lambert suggest one with her parents lodging with a John and Jane Bond in Liverpool. They may have come from Ireland which may explain Ireland being on Kate Carr's census entry once? Maybe.

[Maiden Stone]

Burial 1871 St John the Evangelist, Blackpool Joseph Septimus Irvine, age 55; abode Blackpool.

 He died in Whitworth & Brandwood sub-district of Rochdale registration district.
GRO Ref: 1871 D Quarter in Rochdale; Volume 08E page 87.
There are 2 entries for the death on Lancashire BMD with different reference numbers. Will one be an amended entry?
Brandwood is a bit of the town of Stacksteads on the opposite side of Newchurch Road from the Tunstead area and just along the road from Waterfoot.  The town of Whitworth is S.E. across the moors.
 It seems to me that he was visiting or staying with his son, Thomas or the son who was the plumber (Robert?), who was in Waterfoot prior to his marriage. It would be interesting to see who registered his death and why there are 2 records at Preston.

[mckha489]

They may have come from Ireland which may explain Ireland being on Kate Carr's census entry once? Maybe.

Twice. See reply #59

Also, remember John Bond a witness at the LAMBERT WILSON marriage.

There’s another (1866 I think, Ancestry is not loading for me at the moment) of another Daniel WILSON to a Margaret Lambert  widow, whose father is John Bond

And Sarah Wilson was a witness for the Carr lambert wedding so she might be connected somewhere