Joseph Septimus Carr - who is he?

[cafetiere]

Hi

This person appears on a marriage certificate of Thomas Carr (49 and a painter) and Catherine Lambert (47) married in Liverpool in 1890. Catherine's father is listed as William Irvine and she's a widow.

I can find a few Joseph Septimus Irvin(e)s but no JS Carr. It's as though the surnames are mixed up.

Can anyone please help me work out what's going on?

Many thanks

[Mabel Bagshawe]

The only Thomas Carr the right age I can find pre marriage (and not after!) was born Ireland. May be Joseph never made it to England, hence not showing up?

[GrahamSimons]

There's a good chance Joseph had six older siblings, indeed six older brothers.

[Pennines]

Welcome to Rootschat.

I haven't looked -- but have you found Catherine's previous marriage? If so who is given as her father on that?

[mckha489]

I’m very confused now!  I couldn’t find the Lambert marriage, so it thought I would look for Thomas’s previous one.


1881.  I think this is them
5 Walpole Street, West Derby

Thomas Carr   43. Painter b Preston
Cate Carr   43. Wife b Ditto
Mary Ellen Carr   14 b Rossendale
Elizabeth Ann Carr   5 b Liverpool
Clara Carr   4 b Liverpool

But in 1891 29 Penton (?) Street


Thomas Carr   52. Painter  Preston
Kate Carr   50.      born Ireland
Elizabeth Ann Carr   15.  Liverpool
Clara Carr   14. Liverpool

Birth for Clara.

CARR, CLARA       LAMBERT 
GRO Reference: 1877  M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 584

Birth for Elizabeth Ann

CARR, ELIZABETH  ANN     LAMBERT 
GRO Reference: 1875  J Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 583

So any previous marriage for Catherine/Kate/Cate Irvine must be before 1875

But, Ancestry is suggesting a baptism for Elizabeth Ann

Elizabeth Ann Carr
Birth   31 May 1875
Baptism 12 Jul 1875
Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father   Thomas Carr painter Lyan Street (from image)
Mother   Emma


and  for Clara

Clara Carr
Birth    14 Feb 1877
Baptism   19 Mar 1877
St Peter's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father   Thomas Carr.  Occupation a Painter. Address Emlyn Street. (From image)
Mother   Maria


Only Mary Ellen CARR I can see reg Haslingden (Which I think is the right district for Rossendale)

Is

CARR, MARY  ELLEN     BOND 
GRO Reference: 1864  M Quarter in HASLINGDEN  Volume 08E  Page 160

But I can’t see a Thomas CARR Bond marriage and that Mary Ellen would be 16 or 17 at the 1881, not 14. And I think she is more likely to be the daughter of Robert Carr & Margaret Bond and she is with them in the censuses so hasn’t moved in with an uncle.


 

[cafetiere]

Thanks for all of these replies.

To answer what I can, no I can't find a Catherine Lambert marriage.

I'm interested in Mary Ellen Carr so I'm trying to find out who her father is. I know (or think I do!) from her marriage certificate that her father was Thomas and a painter. So, the various censuses showing this with a mother called C/Kate make sense. Mary Ellen was born in Bacup or Rossendale (depending) on who completed the census.

Interestingly, she appears to have converted to Catholicism in May 1896 and her mother is recorded as Catherine Lombard. Is this Lambert? Mary Ellen got married a few days after converting. Why did Catherine Lambert get married in 1890?

And, I'm also not sure if Cate/Kate is the same person as Catherine as I also noticed born in Ireland on one census.

I'm finding this hard to unravel so I'm very grateful for all of your replies.

 

[mckha489]

What about

IRVINE, MARY  ELLEN     LAMBERT 
GRO Reference: 1866  D Quarter in HASLINGDEN  Volume 08E  Page 105

[mckha489]

In which case this birth might be connected

IRVING, JOSEPH  SEPTIMUS     LAMBERT 
GRO Reference: 1863  J Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 397
 

Also

IRVINE, ANNIE       LAMBERT 
GRO Reference: 1870  M Quarter in HASLINGDEN  Volume 08E  Page 119

IRVINE, THOMAS       LAMBERT 
GRO Reference: 1871  D Quarter in HASLINGDEN  Volume 08E  Page 108

[Maiden Stone]

This person appears on a marriage certificate of Thomas Carr (49 and a painter) and Catherine Lambert (47) married in Liverpool in 1890. Catherine's father is listed as William Irvine and she's a widow.

You mean he was a witness? Perhaps he just turned up for the wedding and went away again. Got on a boat after the reception.