Joseph Septimus Carr - who is he?

[Oneday]

#89  I'm not sure you have the right person.  I may not either but there appears to be two lots of information - worth checking out both.

The tree I mentioned Joseph Septimus Irivine was born in 1813. Parents Thomas Irvine & Mary Tebay.

He was married more than once.  There is also another child with Carr in their name Robert Carr Irvine born 1852.

Let us know how you go.

[Maiden Stone]

I found something interesting: 

Robert Ogston married Mary Irvine whose father was Joseph Septimus Irvine in 1875 Blackpool, Lancashire.

It has to be the Joseph you are looking for.

Link on family search:  https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?facetType=ON&query=%2Bsurname%3Airvine%7E%20%2Bmarriage_year%3A1855-1890%7E%20%2Bresidence_place%3A%22Preston%2C%20uk%22%7E%20%2Bresidence_year%3A1885-1895%7E&marriage_year0=1800&count=20&gender=F

I've also found a family tree on Ancestry - Coulthard Family Tree by Sue Charlesworth 66 will tell you what is going on.

Thanks for Mary. We found a Mary born 1841 in Preston but didn't know what happened to her.
 Mary 1841  was from Joseph's 1st marriage and was a full sister to Thomas. Their mother died in Preston when they were young. Joseph married again near Blackpool a few years later and had another family. Several children of 2nd family married in Blackpool in 1870s. One son, Robert, was staying in Waterfoot at the time of his marriage, which is where Thomas & Catherine & family lived.
 
See replies #20-27, 31, 32, 39, and 70 for more info on Joseph Septimus Irvine 1813-1871 and his 2 wives and several children.
Joseph  S. Irvine lived in Blackpool area during his 2nd marriage but died near Waterfoot, presumably visiting one of his sons. Another son was a painter, like Joseph and Thomas.
I don't have Ancestry sub. I've been using free sources. Lucky it's Lancashire.

[Oneday]

Did you want me to send you any further details from the tree?

[Maiden Stone]

#89  I'm not sure you have the right person.  I may not either but there appears to be two lots of information - worth checking out both.

The tree I mentioned Joseph Septimus Irivine was born in 1813. Parents Thomas Irvine & Mary Tebay.

He was married more than once.  There is also another child with Carr in their name Robert Carr Irvine born 1852.

Let us know how you go.

How we got Thomas Irvine and Mary Tebay and Thomas Irvine and Jenny Warbrick see replies
 26, 28, 31, 35, 37, 39, 41 and 46.
John Carr Irvine replies 31, 36.
Robert Carr Irvine replies 21-23
Those 2 were from 2 mothers so Carr came from Joseph's side.
See also reply 39.
Sudden death of Thomas Irvine when Joseph was very young and remarriage of widowed Mary Irvine to John Carr may be why the name Carr was important to Joseph.
Can you see any flaws?

[Maiden Stone]

I'm confident that we've identified the Joseph Septimus Carr, father of Thomas Carr as Joseph Septimus Irvine, born 1813, son of Thomas & Mary Irvine (Tebay) and baptised in Lancaster.
 Thomas Irvine died when Joseph was 2. His mother married John Carr and this seems to have been the origin of the middle name Carr which Joseph gave to some of his sons, and the name which his eldest son, Thomas adopted as his surname when he moved to Liverpool with Catherine.
Joseph married twice, both wives called Ann. He lived in Preston with 1st wife and in Blackpool area with 2nd wife (but he waited until Ann #1 died before he married Ann #2).
Thomas Irvine was born in Preston, son of Joseph's 1st marriage. 3 of Joseph's  sons were named John.
The death of Joseph Septimus Irvine was registered in a sub-district adjacent to where his son, Thomas Irvine lived and far from Joseph's home in Blackpool.

The reason for Thomas changing his name to Carr seems to have been connected with Catherine already having a husband, Francis Johnson when she previously lived in Liverpool.

[Maiden Stone]

Can anyone offer an explanation as to why there are 2 entries for death registration (1871) of Joseph Septimus Irvine in Lancashire BMD death index. Does it mean that there are 2 death certificates at Preston or that the original certificate there has been amended? Is it anything to do with him being buried in a different registration district from the one where he died? 
See reply #70.

[cafetiere]

Once again, thanks for all the information and suggestions of where to look.

I couldn't find a birth certificate for Mary Ellen Carr on the PRO site when I first looked but she's probably registered as Irvine/e.

 

[mckha489]

Reply #6

[cafetiere]

Thanks. Meant to add that I'd now found it after remembering the name change but you've beat me to it.