Joseph Septimus Carr - who is he?

[Maiden Stone]

3 burials in register St John, Preston.
1840 John Carr Irvine aged 1. Abode Spring Gardens.
29th March 1844 John Irvine, infant, Abode Spring Gardens.
14th April 1844 Ann Irvine age 30. Abode Spring Gardens.

[Maiden Stone]

Yes, I had been thinking about KERR

Thomas Irvine seems to have been in Lancaster at least by 1793, when he I think, married Jenny WARBRICK
He was a Cooper then but that seems a logical step towards Liquor Merchant to me

A probable brother (relative anyway) John who is Bondsman on marriage license

If it was the same Thomas, what happened to Jenny and when and where did Thomas marry Mary?

Edit. I now see that Thomas & Mary marriage is in reply #31.

[mckha489]

Looks as though Mary TEBAY’s parents were George TEBAY and Ellen MASON. All Lancaster.  So no Carr/Kerr there.

[mckha489]

If it was the same Thomas, what happened to Jenny and when and where did Thomas marry Mary?

I think Jenny is possibly burial as Jane wife of Thomas Feb 1894. Not sure.
Marriage to Mary Lancaster 3 March 1811

BUT. Hold on

Just found this

Mary Irvine
Event Type:   Marriage
Event Date:   27 Jun 1819
Parish:   Lancaster, Lancashire, England   
View this parish
Spouse:   John Carr

Mary is a widow.


So...

Mary TEBAY married Thomas IRVINE 1811
Thomas died bef 1819
Mary remarried to John CARR who was thus stepfather to Joseph Septimus Irvine 😀😀😀

[Maiden Stone]

Decided to look at any Mary Carr in Lancaster in appropriate period. What about this marriage at Lancaster?
April 1793 John Casson, grocer & Mary Carr. Witnesses Repentance somebody and Jenny Warbrick.
Now there was more than 1 Jenny Warbrick in Lancaster. However … a woman called Mary Casson was a witness to Thomas Irvine's marriage later that year. Joseph Irvine was the other witness.
Grocer and spirit dealer are occupations which went together. Irvine and Casson might have been in partnership, or just members of a business association or friends. I can't see a burial for John Casson or for Jenny/Jane/Jennet Irvine. There were several Casson children of John & Mary baptised at Lancaster and a couple were buried there.
Lancashire Archives site isn't working for me so I can't look for marriage bond or will for John Cassson.
There might be adverts or notices in Lancashire newspapers.
I've just seen your latest post but  I'll post this anyway.

[mckha489]

Perhaps John CARR is that Mary Carr/Casson’s brother.

Jane Irvine wife of Thomas age 28 buried st Mary Lancaster 28 Feb 1794

Only trouble is there is a baptism for James Irvine son of Thomas and Jenny in April 1794.  If Jenny died in childbirth wouldn’t they have done an earlier baptism?

[mckha489]

This will might be Useful?

John   Carr   1849   Preston   Amounderness   Lancashire

Or this one

John   Carr   1844   Garstang   Amounderness   Lancashire     Timing fits with naming of child John Carr.

Possibly

Mary   Carr   1833   Preston   Amounderness   Lancashire

[Maiden Stone]

Perhaps John CARR is that Mary Carr/Casson’s brother.

Jane Irvine wife of Thomas age 28 buried st Mary Lancaster 28 Feb 1794

Only trouble is there is a baptism for James Irvine son of Thomas and Jenny in April 1794.  If Jenny died in childbirth wouldn’t they have done an earlier baptism?

Perhaps he was a big , healthy baby. Or that was his reception into church and he'd been baptised privately earlier. 1-2 months was a popular age for baptisms in my village at the time. (Curate recorded birthdates.)  Poor Jenny didn't last long.
They might all have been related to each other in various ways.  Sally Irvine married a Casson who was a shipwright in 1789. Lancaster was a busy port. Thomas Irvine may have supplied rum to ships. I noticed a Swarbrick marriage to one of those surnames. (Swarbrick/Warbrick variants)

[mckha489]

Plenty there for Cafetiere to be looking at.


But...what about Catherine/Cate/Kate Marie Lambert.  Who was she and why did she say her father was William Irvine?  Illegitimate and made him up?

Why didn’t they marry much earlier?
Was one or other previously married?