Assigned convicts

[majm]

Are you certain that your chap was assigned to DARKE back at the beginning ....  What info matches up those baptisms to the chap on the Hero?    Is it possible there was more than one chap by that name?

JM

[majm]

Are you looking at the actual ticket of leave  or at the BUTT that would likely be a digitised image and available via subscription commercial family history websites...

It is my understanding that TofL was for good conduct and a lifer could get be awarded such after 10 to 12 years,  with the same master .... the Superintendent of Convicts did not need the convict to actually apply for it ....  and by the 1840s,  convictism was not the way forward for NSW ....

JM

[majm]

I am looking at an index entry for a Certificate of Freedom
45/2120
William ARMSTRONG
Arrived 31 August 1835, per the Hero to Sydney
Age 43 years, Reads and Writes, Protestant
Married, 2 male children, 1 Female child
Born Dublin, Ireland
Shoemaker
Trial 29 August 1832 at Dublin City for Stealing Boots, no previous convictions, Sentenced to Life.
5ft 8 inches tall, dark complexion, sallow and pockpitted.  Brown Hair, Light Hazel Eyes.

I have not seen the actual CF.  I realise this is the same reference number as the ToL    Nope,  I don't know the how/when/where/what/why of that particular index entry.  I have phoned a friend ... I will post their comments when I receive them....    I left a message on their machine.

JM

[majm]

Also,  have you investigated the following ... I spotted this from my armchair look through NSW Archives keyname search option 

NSW Archives
Surveyor General – Letters
Reel 3052,   
William ARMSTRONG, 10 January 1851-31 December 1855, 
Bowenfels, Mudgee, O’Connell Plains, Rylstone.
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/search_form?id=35  from NSW Archives : These are letters received from surveyors, mostly relating to matters such as the survey description of farms, reserves, churches, schools, rivers and mountain ranges, or forwarding tracings and plans of these after survey.

I am familiar with the Bathurst district, and Bowenfels and Mudgee ... and I am a drafter, so I know about tracings and plans ...  I am also fairly sure there was at least two chaps named William Armstrong in the 'Macquarie' area in the 1840s and 1850s  Until your enquiry I did not realise that the second one (the one who did 24 hours) had any survey experience at all, but I am 'over the moon' to now know that both the Wm Armstrong chaps would know what a 'chain' is and know a theolodyte ...

JM

[buckyb]

Thanks JM

The surveyors letter was a great find. thanks very much.

I have taken the assignment to William Wedge Darke from a story written by John Armstrong on the members.iinet site (Convicts to Australia). The article seems to be well researched and I have assumed he has evidence of the assignment. The assignment is further collaborated by the surveyors letter you found and the endorsement on his TOL.

I am sure that the children mentioned are the children of William Armstrong and Eleanor Hall (Jobling). William's burial certificate puts him on the Hero, he is also mentioned on the children's marrriage and death certificates and in many family trees. DNA evidence would also seem to back up the family line.There could well be other William Armstrong s in the district but I am sure the one I refer to is from the "Hero".

The TOL information I refer to is from the digital butts put out by Ancestry.

Having regard to the information, I would welcome and value your opinion as to whether or not you think that William Armstrong from the "Hero" was in the Windsor District at or before the time the TOL was issued.

Once again many thanks for your time and input in this matter.

Rod

[majm]

I have had a return call from my friend.   They have checked, and they know that the transcription index I used was made in Excel, and perhaps CF instead of TL is simply a data entry error.   BUT they also mentioned something for you to consider:

If you look at the images uploaded to Ancestry for the Ticket of Leave Butts, perhaps you could look at the ones just before and just after your William ARMSTRONG’s one.

Look for the letter reference 45/10446  and the mention of Surveyor  and notice that DARKE, Surveyor  and also another Surveyor are mentioned, and that the Administrative officers must have been very busy on 19 November 1845….
45/2051 starts the sequence on 19 November (image 117 of 904)
45/2111 mentions  Dark, (180/904) Yass bench
45/2112 , Darke, Surveyor (181/904) Queanbeyan bench
45/2113, Darke Surveyor 182, Wollongong Bench
45/2114, a different Surveyor but letter 45/10446 reference, Yass bench
And so on including YOUR chap, and after him too ….
45/3229, Darke, As. Surv’r  (Assistant Surveyor) 188/904, Berrima Bench
45/2120, Darke Surveyor, ……  189/904, on recommendation of Windsor Bench
45/2121, Darke, 190/904, Berrima bench
I think last one in that sequence is : 45/2127, 19 November, Darke, 196/904, Campbelltown Bench,

So, perhaps ‘Windsor’ is simply an ADMINISTRATIVE ERROR at H.Q.,  processing a bulk issue of Tickets of leave in the post penal era, (when admin staff were being stood down, or re-assigned away from convict admin) rather than any actual active intervention by Morrisset or Darke or even Armstrong.  All that paperwork that needed to be handwritten onto  forms, using quill and real ink. 

And, they also mentioned that Cecilia could not possibly be the actual daughter of William, but he may well have been the father figure in her life.

JM

[majm]

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/228065858  29 Nov 1845 Cumberland Times
'there is not a Clerk in the office of the Principal Superintendent of Convicts, that we know of, whom we could consciously assert he merits the wages which the public pay him.  Without the necessary talent and industry we consider it a scandalous abuse of public trust, a flagrant waste of public money; to employ persons of such mean asquariements, and naturally indolent habits, as now disgrace the office .....

JM         A number of my male ancestors were Clerks in the NSW admin (Treasury)  in that decade.  And I am a direct descendant of one of the private Surveyors,     

[buckyb]

Many thanks JM, you have been a great help and I think I now have a better understanding of the situation.

The series of entries on 19th November is very intriguing, could be that both surveyors Labatt and Darke worked together and were looking for workers. As you pointed out the convicts did not necessarily have to apply for the TOL.  Labatt and Darke may have checked through their ex workers and endeavoured to free them for employment. Pure speculation of course but I guess that's another story.

I agree with you on Cecilia, I'm sure William was not her biological father but I am sure that he did in fact raise her until his death in 1849.

Once again thanks for your help and I will leave this post open as someone might be able to add something down the track.

Rod

[emilypos]

Your Wm ARMSTRONGs  per Hero has been claimed twice / possible cousins ? . See

http://www.hawkesbury.net.au/claimaconvict/surname.php?letter=A


Bye

Emilypos  NSW