Manchester "Peterloo"

[Viktoria]

Just listened again ,on my iPad,to this morning’s Peterloo broadcast.
I heard something and wanted to be certain,re Chartists and Peterloo.
A man named Stafford from Ashton ,wrote a song straight after Peterloo and the programme stated that it was used by Chartists as an anthem ,up to the 1830’s.
So obviously there was  a movement at least,at the time of Peterloo which developed into the full blown Chartist Society .
Chartism with its “ One man one vote ,Secret ballots and proportional representation” was very much fired by as I said ,by the Rotten and Pot Walloper Boroughs at a time when   Old Sarum had two M.Ps but no people
and Manchester had about 100,000 people but no M.P to represent those people in Parliament.,
Not until The Reform act a few years later did M/c  get an M.P.
I have looked up lots of info from many sources and hardly any two
agree on all points,especially the numbers and the military.
So sallyorks we will have to agree to differ, the most important thing is that the meeting took place of peaceable ordinary hard pressed people seeking just reform of the Corn laws ,parliamentary representation etc ,but who were
not allowed their voice ,yet the fact that it did develop into a massacre,albeit relatively few were killed and injured,which is still active in people’s memory
and paved the way for the many benefits we have today.
They were so brave ,although they had no idea how it would develop and people like Samuel Bamford risked a great deal, as any such radicalism was seen as almost a revolution French  style,that is why the National Anthem  was played to show it was a peaceable gathering to air just grievances
The savagery of the Yeomanry went as far as beating a man at seven O’clock in the evening and harrying people back to the hills ,in one case to Haslingden.That amazed me when I heard a programme about about Peterloo that was broadcast just after we returned to the U.K after 12 years abroad ,in 1976 and it did stir my Mancunian pride and was one of those little things that make you feel you have come home.
Cheerio.Viktoria..

[Mike in Cumbria]

Chartism takes its name from the People's Charter of 1838. Unless they had invented time travel it was physically impossible for Chartists to be at Peterloo in 1819 however you want to spin it.

[Skoosh]

The Chartists didn't just spring from nowhere, they were the same folk, or their sons, who were out on the streets a generation before. The end of the Napoleonic Wars saw recession & unemployment & many realised that their real enemy wasn't the French but the British oligarchy who we have to thank for the Highland Clearances in Scotland & the Irish Famine in the 1840's. The Great Patriotic War was all about saving the necks, the land & the lifestyle of the British ruling class from the bogey-man Napoleon & the workers were the mugs & canon-fodder wot did it!

Skoosh.

[Mike in Cumbria]

The Chartists didn't just spring from nowhere,

Of course not - the people at Peterloo were demanding the same basic rights as the Chartists 20 years later.

[Viktoria]

Mike, you have made my point exactly, the  iniquities ,inequalities etc were there long before the Reform Act and the before the name “Chartists”applied to like minded people who wanted reform.
How could they be Chartists before  the Charter..?1830’s.

The Militia were called in as there was great fear that The French Revolution would infect working class people over here, and on the day ,there were some people wearing caps like those worn by the French people , among the crowd and some on poles .
The statement in the radio programme this morning said that a song composed right after Peterloo was sung by Chartists, probably meaning people who later ,when the when The Chartist Society  was formed became members.
The song was an anthem for Chartism up to the late 1830’s when the Reform Bill was passed.
So no time travel needed,just the understanding that movements take time to mature especially in an atmosphere of fear and repression caused by the ruling classes in case a guillotine should be erected in London!

Yes Skoosh ,you are right , there was a lot of unrest and poverty , the Corn laws not repealed until1848 ,too late to help alleviate suffering in the Great  Irish famine , and by which time many Scots  has been forced to leave their Crofts.For sheep!
So much for The Charge of The Scots Greys  at Waterloo!
(  That is a smashing painting , in The Art  gallery in Leeds,well Temple  Newsham)
Cheerio Viktoria.
P.S. my Dad loved talking about Peterloo ,but the gory version - would not have it that less than a thousand people were slashed to death.
Do not know who his history teacher was but his GreatGreat  grandma was alive at the time of Peterloo,! V.

[Viktoria]

200 th Anniversary of Peterloo today,events in Manchester and some info on the lunchtime news.
I did not think about that added to the general unrest there would be men returning from the Napoleonic  Wars to poor conditions and often no work.

So many churches began to be built ,and you wonder if it was anything to do with keeping down the masses through religion,as employers who built churches( Fire Insurance? ) could dictate that their employees must attend
 that church.
When hymns like “All things bright and beautiful “ could have verses like
The rich man in his castle
The poor man at his gate.
God made them high and lowly
And ordered their estate,.
Talk about people knowing their perceived place in the order of things!!!
That verse is not sung today,and a good thing too!
Some churches were actually called “ Waterloo churches” and Government money released for them.
 Well looking forward to the evening’s news re this afternoon’s events at St. Peter’s Fields.
Viktoria.

[Viktoria]

Quite a good programme,and there were actually photographs of people who were at Peterloo,albeit taken in 1887( correct me if I have mis remembered that date) and their descendants were contacted.
Some had not even heard of Peterloo until contacted.
Well it was stated 18 killed so I think those who died later were included.
But an informative programme and I must go  to M/c to see the murals when the Town Hall is open to the public  again.
Viktoria.

[Maiden Stone]

Quite a good programme,and there were actually photographs of people who were at Peterloo,albeit taken in 1887( correct me if I have mis remembered that date) and their descendants were contacted.

I believe it was 1884. I only know that because I read it in "The Daily Mirror" online today. The photo was taken at a commemorative event to coincide with an expansion of the franchise.
"PM" radio programme today ended with Shelley's poem, read by a Manchester poet.

[Viktoria]

Thankyou,
It was a sobering statement that many men there that  day had served in the Napoleonic wars, Waterloo included and escaped French sabres to be cut down by their own countrymen.
A long time too before any reforms.
That poem is v e ry l o n g !!!!
I did not know of it,so thanks again.
Viktoria.