Author Topic: South Australia Death Lookup - James WILLIAMS  (Read 4968 times)

Offline cando

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Re: South Australia Death Lookup - James WILLIAMS
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 04 January 23 10:50 GMT (UK) »
Quote
There is no reason for that newspaper entry reading as it does. As it reads, James Williams was still alive with possibly another wife

There is NO male birth registration with father James A* WILLIAMS at Maitland or in the District of Daly. 
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Siouxsie

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Re: South Australia Death Lookup - James WILLIAMS
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 04 January 23 20:52 GMT (UK) »
This is getting more tangled than a pile of Christmas tree lights.

So........Amelia and James Authur get married in 1885.
Annie is born in 1886.
A Police Gazette notice is issued in 1889 stating he deserted in 1885.
In 1890 Amelia married Henry Hopkins as a widow.
In 1891 a birth notice was in the paper for a birth to the wife of James Anarthur
The following day, a birth is registered for

HOPKINS Charles Henry Carter
2 May 1891
Father Henry Edwin HOPKINS Mother  Emelia Elizabeth (fmly) WILLIAMS (nee) PALIN

Now.....it states that she was formerly Williams.

SO.....where does this leave us?

Was James still alive, and this birth is to his 2nd wife?
Was James still alive and annoyed at Amelia for getting remarried while he was still alive and he put up the birth notice?
Was one of the family members malicious enough to put up the notice?

And my big questions still stand.

When and where was James born?
Yes, I know his father's name was James Edward, but that hasn't been much help so far.
And when did he die? Did he remarry? Have other children?
Was he a recent immigrant?

So many questions.
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Hutton : Edinburgh, Scotland
Downey : England
Ingram: St George East, Middlesex and New Zealand
Roberts : Grafton, NSW
Blackadder : Grafton, NSW
Gillett : Grafton, NSW
Brocklebank :Carkettle, Lancashire
Bowes : Ulverston, Lancashire
Rose : Bo'ness, Linlithgowshire, Scotland
Kelleher:County Cork, Ireland
Shepherd : Helpringham, Lincolnshire

Offline Drayke

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Re: South Australia Death Lookup - James WILLIAMS
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 04 January 23 23:02 GMT (UK) »
Do you have James and Elizabeths actual marriage record to confirm what his actual middle name was (not a transcription)? It (Auarther) could be a transcription error or could be his actual name. For example, there are people around with the last name Anarther but not Auarther.

If you dont have the actual marriage record, then that would be your first place to start, confirming whether he was this Anarther/Auarther or was he Arthur with an odd loop of copperplate writing that was transcribed wrong.

Middle names back then were also here or there especially immigrants. For example, I have a person in my tree that immigrated to Australia with no middle names, married without any mention of them but when his death was registered in 1900, he ended up with two middle names.

As for the newspaper article you are wrong in your thinking. The birth notice says a son was born to James Anarther Williams on 1 May but the actual date of the paper it was entered in on was 16 Jul 1891. A full 2 months after his birth. Highly doubtful to be an error or malicious especially given that in the same column at the start it clearly states:"Announcements under this heading must be authenticated by the name and address of the sender..."

As I mentioned, this also could be a different person with a similar middle name, so it is hard to know exactly especially given the child's name isn't given. So, need to confirm that middle name before anything else.

Have you checked interstate for James' birth? He could, as you say, also be a new immigrant which can prove very difficult to trace especially in Australia back then when fact checking wasn't possible.

Offline Siouxsie

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Re: South Australia Death Lookup - James WILLIAMS
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 05 January 23 00:02 GMT (UK) »
Alas I do not have James and Elizabeths actual marriage record to confirm what his actual middle name was.

Yes, sorry I was wrong, the newspaper didn't come out until 16 July 1891. The date of birth for the son in the paper is one day prior to the registration birth of his ex wife's new baby.

I think James was perhaps a sailor........he had two anchor tattoos.
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Hutton : Edinburgh, Scotland
Downey : England
Ingram: St George East, Middlesex and New Zealand
Roberts : Grafton, NSW
Blackadder : Grafton, NSW
Gillett : Grafton, NSW
Brocklebank :Carkettle, Lancashire
Bowes : Ulverston, Lancashire
Rose : Bo'ness, Linlithgowshire, Scotland
Kelleher:County Cork, Ireland
Shepherd : Helpringham, Lincolnshire


Offline cando

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Re: South Australia Death Lookup - James WILLIAMS
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 05 January 23 01:18 GMT (UK) »
Siouxsie I have searched my SA Births resource and there is no WILLIAMS birth in 1891 at Maitland and there is only one WILLIAMS birth in the whole district of Daly and that was at Kadina.

I assume you have this birth

PALIN James
3 Dec 1882
Father   not recorded    Mother Emilia PALIN
At Maitland      Dal 294/170

and this

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article95259721

Siouxsie I have done a lot of research in this area as my late husband's family were from the district.  Amelia's second husband is mentioned at Kilkerran.  My late husband's ancestors farmed at Kilkerran. Just a rural location with a school.   Pretty isolated in the 1880's and 1890's.  It wasn't unusual for bdm registration quarterly returns not to reach the Registry at Adelaide so it's possible that a local district register one survives.  I can recall a couple of incidents where the mail coach caught fire and the driver was an ancestor!!!  When I next go to Adelaide I'll pop into SA Genealogy and see if I can have a look at the fiche of the Daly registrations for you or alternatively you could contact the Kadina Library  -  kadina.libraryATplain.sa.gov.au   Replacing the AT with @. They are not permitted to photocopy the local registers however you could ask for an opinion on James' second given name and any other details.

I'll have a browse through some local history books to see if I can see anything about the PALIN, WILLIAMS or HOPKINS families.  I agree that it's possible James A was a sailor.

I would also mention here that it wasn't unusual for country personal announcements to be published in the Adelaide newspapers some weeks after the event.

A number of public family trees (not on subscription only websites) have Elizabeth Amelia's husband as William Arthur - as he was noted on his daughter's birth registration.

Cheers





Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Siouxsie

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Re: South Australia Death Lookup - James WILLIAMS
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 05 January 23 03:26 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks Cando.

I didn't have James Palin's birth........it is very strange as Amelia had a whole pile of kids with Hopkins and James would have been between 2nd and 3rd kid!

This family.......on both sides are a really PAIN!
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Hutton : Edinburgh, Scotland
Downey : England
Ingram: St George East, Middlesex and New Zealand
Roberts : Grafton, NSW
Blackadder : Grafton, NSW
Gillett : Grafton, NSW
Brocklebank :Carkettle, Lancashire
Bowes : Ulverston, Lancashire
Rose : Bo'ness, Linlithgowshire, Scotland
Kelleher:County Cork, Ireland
Shepherd : Helpringham, Lincolnshire

Offline cando

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Re: South Australia Death Lookup - James WILLIAMS
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 05 January 23 03:53 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks Cando.

I didn't have James Palin's birth........it is very strange as Amelia had a whole pile of kids with Hopkins and James would have been between 2nd and 3rd kid!

This family.......on both sides are a really PAIN!

He was born 1882 so well before Elizabeth Amelia married in 1885.

These are the chn I found on my resource.

PALIN James
3 Dec 1882
Father   not recorded    Mother Emilia PALIN
At Maitland      Dal 294/170

WILLIAMS Elizabeth Annie
5 Jan 1886
Father James Arthur WILLIAMS  Mother Elizabeth Amelia PALIN
At Maitland    Dal  366/361

HOPKINS Charles Henry Carter
2 May 1891
Father Henry Edwin HOPKINS   Mother Emelia Elizabeth (fmly) WILLIAMS (nee) PALIN
At Maitland   Dal 477/85

HOPKINS Sarah Ethel May
8 Apr 1894
Father Henry Edward HOPKINS  Mother Amelia Ethel PAILIN
At Lower Light   PtG  540/356

HOPKINS Edwin James Lloyd
13 Jul 1896
Father Edwin Henry HOPKINS  Mother Annie Elizabeth PALIN
At Gawler Bar 586/437

HOPKINS  William Arthur Tennyson
22 May 1899
Father Henry HOPKINS  Mother Amelia PALIN
At Solomontown Port Pirie   Cla 640/100

HOPKINS Leonard Harold
10 Aug 1902
Father Henry HOPKINS  Mother Amelia PALIN
at Port Pirie   Cla 700/86

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

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Re: South Australia Death Lookup - James WILLIAMS
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 05 January 23 04:32 GMT (UK) »
And he died aged 19 days.

PALIN James
22 Dec 1882   19 days 
Relative Amelia PALIN (Mother)
Lived Maitland   Died Maitland  Dal 124/331

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Siouxsie

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Re: South Australia Death Lookup - James WILLIAMS
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 05 January 23 05:58 GMT (UK) »
My brain isn't functioning well today LOL

I misread the previous entry for James' birth and mistakenly placed his birth between the Hopkins offspring.

Time for me to hop off this computer for the day.
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Hutton : Edinburgh, Scotland
Downey : England
Ingram: St George East, Middlesex and New Zealand
Roberts : Grafton, NSW
Blackadder : Grafton, NSW
Gillett : Grafton, NSW
Brocklebank :Carkettle, Lancashire
Bowes : Ulverston, Lancashire
Rose : Bo'ness, Linlithgowshire, Scotland
Kelleher:County Cork, Ireland
Shepherd : Helpringham, Lincolnshire