John Idle 1883 Application to Field Force

[spades]

Thanks, Graysj.

I've been in and ordered the file via an archivist, as it can't be ordered online due to preservation reasons.

I'll go back early next week and look through it.

Spades

[spades]

Hi Graysj,

Would this be John IDLE arriving Wellington from London in November 1880, per the Wairoa? And scroll to the bottom of the image page for a description of the voyage.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nh6/

And I see from a later article that he used the aliases of John GRAY and Charles BROWN, and in 1902 when sentenced to five years penal servitude for 'blowing up the safe at the Hampden Railway station with dynamite' , he also used CASEY.

So did he survive the five years?

Spades

[spades]

And would you be wanting to have a look at these two files as well, perchance?

https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=24470094

https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=25432348

Spades

p.s. I would suggest posting John's full name to this topic in case others can find anything on him.

[spades]

Well, I can tell you that John IDLE survived incarceration. The 1905 Police Gazette show him in Discharged Prisoners:

John IDLE alias CASEY alias GREY was discharged from Dunedin Gaol on 27 July, 1906. His (previous) occupation was carpenter, he was 5' 11 1/2" tall, born in England (about) 1862, of pale complexion with dark brown hair, hazel eyes and large nose. Scar on palm of right hand and on left thumb. In the Remarks column it also states, 'F P. Photographed at Dunedin 22/10/01. See Police Gazette, 1902, page 236.'
Source: Police Gazette, 1905, page 282.
http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE26338077

In the event that this link doesn't find the image you should search for 'police gazette 1906' on Archives New Zealand search engine, Archway https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/

The Gazettes have been digitized so you should find it pretty easily. If not, ask here for guidance and I'll help you.

So where did John IDLE disappear to after 27 July, 1906?

I wonder if he eventually skipped to Australia. Many did. But he might simply have adopted a new alias and vanished.

Spades

[graysj]

Hi Spades,

You have been busy. Poor John did have a rough time.

When he was last convicted he was using Brougham as his surname. I can find no likely deaths in NZ but there is one in Victoria in 1922 in the name of Brougham. The grave is at Nichols Point Cemetery. Not sure if there is any way of finding a DOB to verify he is our man without getting a certificate.

Yep, that must be him coming over on the Wairoa in 1880.

I'll add John's other names alias s to the subject, good idea. Many thanks.

[spades]

Hi Graysj,

To save us going over old ground it might be best if you tell us everything you know about John IDLE so we can fill in the gaps.

Amongst us we have ready access to resources you won't be aware of, so any name variations may be gold.

Spades

[spades]

When and where was he last convicted?
Was it in New Zealand?
What was the complete name/alias he used then?

Spades

[graysj]

Here is a summary of his convictions. The newspaper accounts give more colour to the cases where featured.

Application made in New Zealand for Police Field Force.11 Jun 1883.

New Zealand Police Gazette.
1893 Feb 21. Larceny 12months. Tried under name of Idle alias Grey at Napier. Discharged from Wellington Gaol  (1 previous conv.)
1894 Jan 3. Larcency 1 mth.Tried under name of Idle alias Grey at Wellington and gaoled there.
1894 Mar. 5.  Larceny 7 Days, Resisting Police 7 Days, Obscene language 14 Days, Damaging uniform 7 Days, wilful damage 7 Days.Tried under name of John Grey alias Idle, at Palmerston N. Discharged from Wanganui Gaol during fortnight ending 21.4.94.
1894 May 7 Larceny 6 mths. Tried under name of Idle alias Grey. Wellington.
1894 Oct 29 Drunkenness 24hrs. Assault 7 days. Tried at Wellington under name of Idle alias Grey.
1894 Nov. 8. Stowaway Fine or 14 Days. Tried under name of Casey alias Grey alias Idle at Lyttelton.
1895 Jan 9 Theft 6mths, Assault 7 days, assault 3mths. Tried under name of Idle alias Grey at Wellington.
1895 Oct 18 Theft 3 mths.Wellington. Discharged 1896.
1895 Nov 18 Receiving 12 mths
1895 Dec 3. Theft 12 mths. Tried at Wellington under name of Idle.
1896 Sept 26. Vagrancy 3 mths, Resisting police 3 mths. Tried under name of Idle alias Grey at Wellington and gaoled there.
1897 Mar 9. Acquitted of breaking and entering at Wellington.
1897 Apr.15  Theft 1 month, vagrancy 6mths. Tried under name Idle alias Grey at Wellington. Discharged from Wellington Gaol.
1897 Dec 21. Drunkenness fine or 24 hrs. Wilful damage fine or 7 Days. Tried under name of Casey alias Idle alias Gray.at Timaru and gaoled there.
1897 Dec 28 Trespassing on premises 3 mths.Tried at Timaru under name of Casey alias Idle alias Grey.
1898 Feb 8 /10. Tried at Timaru Sup.Court under name of Casey alias Idle alias Gray 10 Feb convicted of theft from a dwelling and sentanced to 3 years labour.  A Reward offered for information leading to the arrest of John Casey, alias Idle, alias Grey.
1900 Aug14. Obscene language 1 mth & violent behaviour 1 mth. Tried at  Oamaru under name of Casey alias Idle alias Gray. Gaoled in Dunedin.
1901 Jul 30. Two charges of Theft 3 mths on each. Tried under name of Idle alias Casey alias Gray at Dunedin.
1902 Apr 7 Drunkenness fine or 24 hrs. Tried at Dunedin under name of Idle alias Casey alias Gray.
1902 Jun 2 Vagrancy  3 mths. Tried under name of Ide alias Casey alias Grey.
1902 Sept 21 Ernest Oppenheim grocer reports his shop was broken into & the safe was burst open by dynamite  but nothing was stolen. Suspicion attached to John Idle and John Howard.
1902 Oct 30 Breaking & entering and Theft. 5 years. Tried under name of Idle alias Casey alias Gray.
1906 Jul 28. Discharged from gaol during the week ending.
1911 Mar 6 Drunk and disorderly fine or 7 days.Tried at Wellington under name of Brougham alias Idle alias Casey alias Grey. Discharged during week ending 11 March

PHOTOGRAPHED at Wanganui 19 Apr  1892
PHOTOGRAPHED at Dunedin     22 Oct 1901


1893. Scar on right plam & left thumb. Dimpled chin.
1895. Long ears.Scar on nose & over right eye. 3 upper teeth missing.

[graysj]

One more conviction i found in the newspapers. 

13 Dec 1880 Assaulting a Constable in the execution of his duties. Idle admitted he was drunk at the time. Fined 5s or 24 hrs imprisonment. 

This wasnt long after he landed off the "Wairoa" 24 Nov 1880!