Author Topic: Cannot find BDM NSW record of death for Bridget Brown nee McGuggin OR McGuggan  (Read 3377 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Cannot find BDM NSW record of death for Bridget Brown nee McGuggin OR McGuggan
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 23 February 19 12:09 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the kind advice as it is much appreciated. After receiving advice from BDM about death records not occurring reliable before the 1850's I tried searching for the son of Bridget and Charles who died a month before Bridget. Strangely a search of every combination I could think of yielded no result but a search on Ancestry for him provided this ..
Name:    John S Brown
Death Date:    1837
Death Place:    New South Wales
Registration Year:    1837
Registration Place:    Sydney, New South Wales
Volume Number:    V18371899 21

I have tried to enter the record number every way I could think of and it does not accept it. Any ideas on exactly how the number should be input? It makes me think that if a search for this child is non productive then it may well be the same problem with Bridget.

Regards,
Paul







Sorry for long quote,  I am on e reader   ::)

At NSW BDM deaths index online, 

Select the option for searching by number,  YES  (default is NO) .. and enter  1899 in first box and 1837 in second box.

Then press search button ....

It is pointing to the Early Church Record : Volume 21,  line 1899,  of the year 1837.

Alternatively  just use the 'less gives more' method for NSW BDM online index and enter BROWN and then next box enter John and  scroll down missing all the other boxes until year ... enter  1837 for start and finish ...

Add  ... volume 21 is definitely C of E.

JM
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Offline majm

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Re: Cannot find BDM NSW record of death for Bridget Brown nee McGuggin OR McGuggan
« Reply #19 on: Monday 25 February 19 23:48 GMT (UK) »
........

What information do you already have re your Bridget who arrived per the Red Rover in 1832?   Here is a live link to ten pages of the passenger list for that voyage (10 August 1832)

http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5312&item=4_4822&ship=Red%20Rover

JM

I can see this is a different passenger list, but for the same voyage .... and there I can see that Bridget is recorded as aged 13.     I have read that the girls on that voyage were mostly from Limerick, and were drawn from the Orphans and Foundlings Hospital .... but I cannot find anything to support that notion.   Apparently there's a newspaper cutting from April 1832 from a Limerick Chronicle .... but I have not found it...

ADD,  page 9 of 10  :)

JM

Sorry for the delay in following this up,  I hope the following results from some newspaper searchings is helpful...

The Morning Post 4 April 1832
Ship News ….  Cork, March 30 ...
Arrived the Red Rover, Chrystie, from London for New South Wales.



I have not yet found any newspaper cutting for April 1832 that mentions the Orphans and Foundlings Hospital being where the girls who came on the Red Rover arriving August 1832,  but I have found some clues as to where the girls were from ….

The Morning Post 17 April 1832
Emigration … Limerick April 11 …
We stated some posts since that 200 females were to proceed from this port to New South Wales.  The Red Rover transport having arrived in Cove for their conveyance,  44 females forwarded by the Inisfail steamer from Dublin, embarked on board her yesterday.  This morning 140 females from this city and vicinity proceeded by one of the river steam-boats for Cove to embark also in the transport. – (Cork Chronicle of Monday).


I found the Limerick Chronicle of Wednesday 11 April 1832 (but NOT the Cork Chronicle) and the very short article there simply reads:
One hundred and eighty-four free female emigrants, under 30 years of age each, embarked yesterday at Cork, in the Red Rover transport, for New South Wales.

I also found a mention of the Limerick Evening Post and Clare Sentinel of 3 April 1832.  I have NOT found that edition online, but I can see that the National Library of Australia does have the newspaper listed in its catalogue. https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/1740310   Apparently the article reads:

New wives for New South Wales -- vessel, we believe the Red Rover, has been taken up by the Government, for the purpose of conveying 200 free female emigrants from Cork to New South Wales, who are to be provided with situations or husbands as chance may offer, on their arrival

Perhaps that Limerick newspaper may have mentions of the surnames MCGUGGIN or MCGUGGAN …    I see it is digitised and available via subscription services. 

So, 200 females aged under 30, and eligible to marry ...

44 from Dublin (may have been born/raised elsewhere, but that's where they had been prior to travelling to Cork to board the Red Rover)

140 already in Cork (may have been born/raised elsewhere, but they were from Cork and its vicinity prior to boarding the Red Rover there)

16* unaccounted for ....  Need to check if 200 embarked or if that was a nominal figure...

The Sydney Gazette 11 August 1832
Arrivals ... From Cork, yesterday the ship Red Rover, Captain Christie, with 202 free female settlers and two children, one born on the voyage .... they appear to be between the ages of 16 and 24. 

Paper says Landed 202 female settlers plus 2 children.   
 Likely that would be made up of :
44 Dublin
140 Cork and vicinity
18* unsure  (variations in the figures deduced from those newspaper reports 16 or 18)
1 child unsure
1 child born on voyage

Does that match with the passenger lists?

Anyways, now it should be possible to seek out any baptismal records for McGuggin/McGuggan (and other variations) in the right range of years for those two girls ...  I should note that on some of the Bounty lasses I have researched in past years,  I recall finding that some baptismal records were dated in the weeks prior to embarking .... perhaps as part of the application process needed by some of the Emigration Agents.


JM

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Offline Tigers

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Re: Cannot find BDM NSW record of death for Bridget Brown nee McGuggin OR McGuggan
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 27 February 19 04:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi All ...... and thanks for your guidance. I have exhausted every avenue as well as alleyways with no success.
Perhaps someone is Ireland can help me discover where Bridget McGuggin OR McGuggan and her sister Mary Ann came from in Ireland. They arrived in Sydney on 10th August, 1832 on the vessel Red Rover. The ship sailed from Cork in Ireland so she could live somewhere close to that location.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Offline sparrett

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Re: Cannot find BDM NSW record of death for Bridget Brown nee McGuggin OR McGuggan
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 27 February 19 06:55 GMT (UK) »
So this is probably the marriage you are intending to list.

411/1835 V1835411 73A
PEPPER George
MCGUGGIN MaryA
JA

This man was possibly police constable at Goulburn in 1837
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2210537

The Mary Ann PEPPER who died in GOULBURN was of parents Henry and Susan 1885/6843

The ships list of Red Jacket EDIT Rover shows 2 different spellings of the surname.
Mary was to report to Mr BEA of George Street.
Bridget to Mr EVANS of Sydney.

Perhaps you have something to confirm the sisterhood of these 2 women.

Hi,
I would just like to offer a reminder that the information you have apparently relied on about Mary Ann PEPPER of Newcastle was not correct and I have given you details which are more likely correct.

If you have no certification of any sort on your Bridget, then how do you know they were sisters?
Perhaps I have missed a connection somewhere!
Sue

ADDING
One George PEPPER of Goulburn had a sister named Mary and it is probably her death which is recorded in Goulburn in 1885/6843

 

 

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Offline majm

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Re: Cannot find BDM NSW record of death for Bridget Brown nee McGuggin OR McGuggan
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 27 February 19 07:19 GMT (UK) »
Yes,  I too am concerned as to if they were sisters ...  I expect the official records for their 1830s marriages should have the witnesses noted on them,   even in that era and show how their surnames were recorded on those parish registers....

On one set of passenger lists they have different spellings and on another set they are both the same age ... suggesting twin sisters,  but not listed together consecutively on any .... suggesting not siblings....

Perhaps there are baptismal records in Ireland ...

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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