Author Topic: William THURMAN murder mystery at Ambergate, Derbyshire on the Cromford Canel  (Read 2414 times)

Offline Andy_T

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Re: William THURMAN murder mystery at Ambergate, Derbyshire on the Cromford Canel
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 03 February 19 12:34 GMT (UK) »
I took a look at Joseph Thurman's  family tree (murdered William's father) and I put it side by side to my tree. These trees only show direct ancestors not all brothers and sisters etc.

On Josephs tree towards the the bottom (being as far as I can go) a bit is in red ink showing possible error or missing information.
Basically on my side a John Thurman, born at Lockington Leicestershire married a Sarah Smith in 1667 at Ashby-De-La-Zouch about 7 miles from Belton, Leicestershire (where Joseph's ancestor, another John Thurman son of Ralf Thurman lived).
 
In my line, I found John Thurman's son William born in 1669 at Church Gresley, South Derbyshire (less than 12 miles from Mountorrel, Leicestershire) but I did not find any other children.

So was Ralf Thurman a son or relative of my John Thurman?

BTW a Ralf Thurman buried in 1705 in Belton, Leics is child of John Thurman & Lucy Thurman.
Two more Ralf Thurman's buried at Belton 1714 & 1715?
Also a Ralf THORNMAN at Barrow-On-Soar 1695.

Andy_T

 

Thurman, Coleman, Beck, Shaw

Offline Andy_T

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Re: William THURMAN murder mystery at Ambergate, Derbyshire on the Cromford Canel
« Reply #10 on: Friday 24 May 19 16:07 BST (UK) »
I  found 4 Mountsorrel yomen and a sokeman with name Thurman in 1518, 1534, 1623 and 1658. Wm Thurman was one of just 6 Freeholders in Mountsorrel  in 1530 and there were about 68 homes there at that time.
Also a Ralph Thurman, last ancestor I traced of murdered William Thurman.
Ralph Thurman is referred to in History And Antiquities of Leicestershire; in 1671 during a jury meeting of Mountsorrel, Barrow on Soar , Quarndon and Roathlye on checking that town rents, fraudments, misgovernment of lands and messuages, mentions that "one Ralph Thurman, hath not paid his town-rent of eleven fhillings and eight pence per annum, seven years and a half ending the four and twentyeth day of June last amounting in whole to fix pounds, fouteen shillings and two pence;the faid jurors doe further finde that allthe trees of oak, afhe,or elm, ftanding or growing , or hereafter fhall ft and or grow, upon all the faid  parcells of land mentioned in the faid fcedule annexed, are, and ought to be, applyed to fome charitable ufes within the faid town of Mountforrel.
5. Ralf Thurman, for one meffuage and backside in Mountforrel aforefaid, in his owne occupation, pays town-rent p annu ~
Later in schedule of 1686 there were 36 people paying town-rent and Ralph is paying way  more than any of the others listed.

WHAT WAS TOWN-RENT, WAS THIS WHAT WE NOW CALL COUNCIL TAX OR RATES?

It also mentions that "the faid rent have for several years employed the same part therof, in the firft place, toward the encouragement and better maintaining of the curate refideing within the faid town of Mountforrel".
In 1694 A Ralf Thurman and wife Grace Thurman stood trial in Middlesex on charges to do with money:
Reference:    C 7/333/34
Description:    

Short title: Tofield v Thurman.

Plaintiffs: Thomas Tofield.

Defendants: Ralph Thurman and Grace Thurman his wife.

Place or subject: money, Middlesex.

Document type: bill and answer
Date:    1694
A Ralph Thurman was buried at Barrow Upon Soar in 1695.

I also found references to a priest from Mountsorrel John Thurman ordained in 1534, another Robert Thurman born  1512 and a Canon at Erdbury in 1531 later rector of Ashby Pava 1556-1582 when he retired a bachelor,
Henry Thurman was rector of the hundred of Sparkenhoe 1560 - 1583.

Was William Thurman of Thurmaston who was murdered and  was decended from Ralph Thurman related to my tree?
I think it is likely he was related. Right now I can't connect my tree to Ralph Thurman but the early Thurman records seem to start in the early 1500s and most of the early records show they were freemen, yoman, sokemen and priests (before and after the Reformation of 1537).                           

I can't prove it but I think we were all probably related back then.

Andy_T
Thurman, Coleman, Beck, Shaw

Offline bobalong

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Re: William THURMAN murder mystery at Ambergate, Derbyshire on the Cromford Canel
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 25 February 21 19:40 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Andrew,
Hope you are still monitoring this thread.
We have traced our Thurman tree back to Thrumpton in Nottinghamshire and there is some evidence that we may have Leicestershire and, possibly, Derbyshire links. This makes me very interested in your tree.
I have a different John marrying Sarah Smith at Ashby De La Zouch in 1667. There is a John (recorded as Joham on FamilySearch) born in Church Gresley to William and Elizabeth in 1637 and I think it is him. The marriage record of John and Sarah has him as resident in Church Gresley.
John and Sarah had two children, William b 1669 and Mary b 1671, both in Church Gresley. I can see no trace of the John born in Lockington from then on.
Your John would actually suit me more. I have Edward of Lockington marrying Bathsheba Carr from Ashby d l Zouch, before moving to Wysall (very speculative!!) and your version would have provided a link.
Would be good to have a digital get together.
Regards,
     Bob