William MASON wed Mary KING circa 1833 in Tynemouth?

[River Tyne Lass]

I am quite tired now and have just noticed your posts before mine Jen

I agree Jen - I tend to  think the Mary in burial record was the daughter of Joseph and Sarah Jane.

From what you have noticed Jen it sounds like John could well be on to something with the Dublin born Joseph.  I think we do need to keep an open mind regarding possibilities at the moment.

[rosie99]

I believe stray marriages are when one of both partners are from another parish.  I wonder if such marriages may have been kept separate from the ordinary parish ones?

They should appear in the marriage register as normal.  It may just be an index for 'stray marriages'

[JenB]

I believe stray marriages are when one of both partners are from another parish.  I wonder if such marriages may have been kept separate from the ordinary parish ones?

They should appear in the marriage register as normal.  It may just be an index for 'stray marriages'

As Rosie says, the marriage would appear in the parish register with all the other marriages. There was no King/Mason marriage at Christ Church according to the index on Genuki  (reply#4).

‘Stray’ indexes were compiled much later by family historians.

[River Tyne Lass]

Oh dear .. that knocks that idea out the window then.

I did see reply 4 but had been hoping the stray marriages might have appeared in a different register to the parish ones.

[jonwarrn]

Unfortunately, however, marriage record at this Church is in the old format:

Page 71 Entry 212

'George Scrimshaw of this Parish Bachelor and Sarah Jane Blakey of this Parish Spinster were Married in this Church, by Banns with the Consent of (Blank space appears) this 24th Day of July in the Year One Thousand Right Hundred and Sixty Five By me John (----?) Curate
George signed
Sarah Jane signed with her mark.
In the presence of
Thomas Blaky (sic)
Jane Waugh

Does this mean that the Joseph Mason and Sarah Blakey marriage was also recorded in two formats?
On the LDS possibly
Christ Church Tynemouth
Marriages, 1850-1868
Film 1068930
Items 1-6
DGS 4629466

FamilySearch have both marriages - where they have indexed them without father's names  -  with film number 1068930 or digital number 004629466

So there could be yet another signature of JWK Mason knocking about (not that it's needed!)

[ThommoS]

JenB - re your post 70.

The Victorian Marriage Certificate has a separate column headed Birthplace....in that box corresponding to Joseph's entry, it states "N Shields, Northumberland' as his POB - it appears the same hand as the Presbyterian Minister Rvd. Cutcham () who married them. One would assume the Minister asked him where he was born.........along with his current marital status haha

Being Presbyterian would also to my mind, lessen the chances of him being Irish...but then his new wife was Irish - who knows?

I did entertain the possibility some time back he may have been illegitimate (did the Bastardry Bonds continue in the 1830's and in that county)?....an online search I did some years ago did not show any accurate listing from what I could access anyway....wasn't much....you would think if he was, then there would be a documentary trail leading to him there, previous bonds I have traced have all been well documented, granted somewhat earlier and in different counties,  ......but never the less, there is always a documentary trail to follow but not here!

So the other possibility being born outside the parish could account for any lack of information on his parents also, he claimed to be a Northumbrian (is that correct ?) despite documentary proof (Marriage certs) showing his 'heritage' - but with all the prevarications we've found so far tends to make me agree with you - there's little that is not incontrovertible with Joseph......sorry about all the double negatives... ..

The documents I sought for him in Victoria did not offer any information at all, just more questions....this chap died intestate and no parents were known. Equally no Inquest was held on his death.......I'm still not 100% sure I have the correct chaps' death due to lack of any corroborative documentation here (ie the 1887 death) - continuing to look at that as well....

Yes, JenB - I do tend to agree that we are looking at the same child Mary and am also confused given the bigamous marriages why the child was referred to Joseph the father, would suggest they still had contact or there were perhaps grand parents aware of the situation....most likely they thought Joseph was deceased by then which would be an 'out' for charges of bigamy at least........who knows...am just thinking out loud......?

.......it's as if he did not want to be found....perhaps his parents are also porkies then....??

[majm]

You will likely find that the child was recorded as Josephs simply because she was still known as Mrs Joseph MASON.... when the child was born ...

Victoria's bdm records are perhaps the most informative .... as good as the Scottish ones... 

The clergy asked very detailed questions for marriages ... he would need to give a date of death for a first wife,  plus details of children of earlier marriages ... easier to tell a porkie than find the full answers to tricky questions ..

JM

[JenB]

I think given all the info Joseph Mason has supplied he clearly states he was born in Northumberland - he's never shied from that...

I'm still a bit confused here, as you say 'all the info Joseph Mason has supplied....he's never shied from that....' which to me implied that you had several different sources of information claiming his birthplace was Northumberland.

But the only one you've quoted is the 1867 marriage cert.

JenB - re your post 70.

The Victorian Marriage Certificate has a separate column headed Birthplace....in that box corresponding to Joseph's entry, it states "N Shields, Northumberland' as his POB - it appears the same hand as the Presbyterian Minister Rvd. Cutcham () who married them. One would assume the Minister asked him where he was born.........along with his current marital status haha

Can you clarify please? What other sources do you have?

[rosie99]

Joseph states he was born in North Shields c183? - parents William Mason & Mary King.  Based on information given on his Australian marriage certificate.

In 1854 he married in Tynemouth. 
Where is he in 1841, There is no Joseph Mason that I can see in The Tynemouth registration district which covers North Shields & Tynemouth.

Where are his parents as they should also be in that area in 1841.  I would also expect to find their deaths in that area.

I would not discount that place of birth on his marriage certificate as another lie.