William MASON wed Mary KING circa 1833 in Tynemouth?

[JenB]

He married Sarah Jane Blakey on 19 Nov 1854 at Parish Church Tynemouth - I have the Certificate
That states his full name was Joseph William King Mason and was a mariner who resided in Tynemouth. He stated his father was William Mason, a grocer from Tynemouth. Blakey was a minor of Tynemouth whose father was Thomas Blakey, a butcher of Tynemouth.

Hi ThommoS, does the marriage certificate actually state that William Mason was a grocer from Tynemouth? Usually an English marriage certificate simply states the occupation of the father not where he was living. Additionally it only states where the groom was living at the time of the marriage, not where his permanent residence was. These can often be two totally different places.

Mason then migrated to Australia (am yet to trace that bit) but he married the widow Elizabeth Watts (nee Lowe) in July 1867 in Victoria...she was born in Ireland - I have that Marriage certificate also.

On it he stated he was a widower and that his first wife died Dec 1854, they had one child but that child was deceased. He stated his first marriage was at Nth Shields his occupation was a miner and he was 33 years old. He stated his parents were William Mason - a sea captain and his mother Mary Mason nee King. His bride, Elizabeth Watts was a widow, her previous husband had died in May 1865 and from marriage produced 9 children, 3 living and 6 deceased.

Does Joseph state anywhere on his 1867 marriage certificate that he was actually born in North Shields?

[River Tyne Lass]

I think there can be little doubt that these two Sarah's will have been the same person.

However, I have been puzzling over this one.  On the face of it, this seems quite an audacious act of Sarah's to have married in the same Church as a spinster and by Banns.  What a risk to take!  Surely a lot of people would have been familiar with the butcher's daughter and known about previous marriage?  She would have risked prison and hard labour.

However, I am now wondering if there could be more to all this.  Could the first marriage have been annulled for some reason?  I get the impression that first husband Joseph may have been a bit of a suspicious character, by his stories and different versions of things.

I am also wondering if Joseph may have originally got to Australia by being transported for some reason?  Transportation may have taken place from Newcastle upon Tyne.  Perhaps, Joseph served his time and it may have been easier to remain in Australia and start afresh as a 'widower'.  Perhaps for some reason, he may have had no chance with getting back with Sarah even if he was able to return to the North East of England.

I know this is all just speculation but I can't help thinking that there might be a bit more to this story than first meets the eye.

[River Tyne Lass]

Also, just curious regarding post 11.  ThommoS, you have let us know that you have the marriage certificates and that the signatures are distinct and by the same hand.

I used to think that the signatures were the original ones on marriage certificates but then someone on here called TickettyBoo explained to me via posts that these are not.  She said in so many words that it would be too time consuming for the person copying out the certificates to try to copy the original signatures so what we see is not likely to even be an attempt at copying.  So therefore, we will only likely see the original handwriting on the Parish Register.

Is this what you mean?  That you have a photocopy of the parish register entries?  Or could it have been in this particular case the person who copied the entry did actually make an attempt at copying the entry.  If you could take a photo of the signatures and put on here the next time I can get to the library I will definitely be able to confirm through the parish register from the first marriage if signature appears to be the same.

[rosie99]

May be your Joseph - just for interest 
North & South Shields Gazette and Northumberland and Durham Advertiser - 24 May 1850

Tynemouth Petty Sessions
Joseph Mason was charged by Mr Avery with refusing to perform his Lawful Employment. Defendant was an apprentice onboard a vessel belonging to Mr Avery and that morning had refused to work. The vessel had sailed in the morning tide without him.  He was committed for 6 weeks.

[JenB]

To your knowledge, do the Mason family (William, Mary and Joseph) appear along side the Blakey's in any regional Census for that period?...they may have been neighbours.....grocer and a butcher would suggest they may have had a business relationship aside from their bigamous children's ?

I can find no family matching this description in Tynemouth in 1841. I think Rosie looked  for this earlier in the thread.

Please bear in mind that William might not have been resident in Tynemouth. As I said earlier, all the marriage cert. of 1854 will have shown was that he was a grocer, not where he was living (unless you have info. on the marriage certificate which shows otherwise reply# 45). There is also always the possibility that he was deceased by the time of the marriage.

[rosie99]

To your knowledge, do the Mason family (William, Mary and Joseph) appear along side the Blakey's in any regional Census for that period?...they may have been neighbours.....grocer and a butcher would suggest they may have had a business relationship aside from their bigamous children's ?

I can find no family matching this description in Tynemouth in 1841. I think Rosie looked  for this earlier in the thread.

Please bear in mind that William might not have been resident in Tynemouth. As I said earlier, all the marriage cert. of 1854 will have shown was that he was a grocer, not where he was living (unless you have info. on the marriage certificate which shows otherwise). There is also always the possibility that he was deceased by the time of the marriage.

Or perhaps once again he is telling 'Porkies'  and he was illegitimate 

[ThommoS]

For some reason Rootschat has been down this morning and not able to access the posts - as with apologies for the time difference - makes it a bit haphazard in replying, but systems seems to be OK now so where to start on your questions of me........?. 

1. Joseph stated on his 1867 certificate he was born in North Shields
2. The 1854 Entry of Marriage stated Joseph resided in Tynemouth at time of marriage - his father William Mason was Grocer - you are correct JenB, it does not say where, that was my assumption
3. I certainly agree with you RTL - I think we are only seeing part of the story so far.....she was risking an awful lot and it just doesn't make sense given same church, same witness etc....
4. Will try and post the signatures merged together from the Certificates in a separate reply as having issues appending to this one.......normally I just cut and pasted to a post but for some reason I cannot with this reply.....I'll nut it out and post separately...


edit...... the attachments app to my posts does not appear to be working to allow me to link a photo....it's not opening the "browse" field to select an attachment as with the copy/paste function also not working inside a post...will keep trying all the same..

[ThommoS]

For some reason I cannot upload any files to this thread and in subsequent posts as the attach link is not active for me - no idea why?..

Anyway I have uploaded a merged file of both marriage certificates for Joseph Mason on the Handwriting, Deciphering and Recognition Forum - that worked just fine - that post is listed under Test Post - Joseph Mason marriage Certificates.......

I placed both signatures together in the one jpg file......

Hopefully that adds more light to this mystery

[rosie99]

For some reason I cannot upload any files to this thread and in subsequent posts as the attach link is not active for me - no idea why?..

You cannot upload images to the 'look up' boards 

For some reason Rootschat has been down this morning and not able to access the posts - as with apologies for the time difference - makes it a bit haphazard in replying, but systems seems to be

Probably Trystan doing whatever he has to do overnight while the UK is sleeping