HS2 and Cemeteries

[Top-of-the-hill]

  I can't comment on HS2 being a vanity project, or the politics involved, and I do appreciate that it is very disruptive for those in its path. But we also need to upgrade our rail network and other infrastructure projects; the trouble is that we have so little space not already in use or beloved for some other reason.
   I live in Kent, and well remember the outcry and protests over the building of HS1 and the Channel Tunnel rail link to Europe. 20 odd years on, the railway takes up no more space than the Victorian lines, and many of us happily use the "high speed" line to London, which also gives us much easier access to railway lines North and West. (I remember having to cross London from Victoria to King's Cross with 2 children and the luggage!) I have never used the cross Channel link, which was easily accessed at Ashford, but unfortunately that facility seems to have gone.

[Andrew Tarr]

  I can't comment on HS2 being a vanity project, or the politics involved, and I do appreciate that it is very disruptive for those in its path. But we also need to upgrade our rail network and other infrastructure projects; the trouble is that we have so little space not already in use or beloved for some other reason.

We could have 'upgraded' (rather than added to) our network by improving the Euston to Birmingham line, for much less outlay than HS2 calls for.  More of the route was quadruple back in the 1950s ; parts were later reduced to double, and 20-30 years ago some were put back to quadruple to relieve congestion.  Spending billions for another (only partially separate) route just to save 10 or 15 minutes on a relatively short journey gives very poor value for money.  That is why it is called a Vanity Project, as much of its political value is to show that we can imitate the French - who have rather more space to do it in.

As things stand, HS2 will not even reach an existing terminus (unlike HS1) and trains will end in west London somewhere near Ealing.  And of course it will have only negative benefit for those disrupted by its passage nearby, as they can't use it - no stations !

[Top-of-the-hill]

  I do accept all you say, Andrew, and the whole thing seems to be descending into farce. By the time it is "finished" the world will have changed!
  I like your comment about imitating the French who have more space. When HS1 was being built, people used to say "Why can the French build their side so much quicker?". My reply was to point out that the Pas de Calais is very different from the North Downs in Kent.

[rosie99]

Has anyone heard anything about when the coffin plaques they found at the excavation of the St James' Cemetery are going to be displayed?

I think you need to ask that question in a new post rather than adding it to this old 2020 post

[Redroger]

We could have 'upgraded' (rather than added to) our network by improving the Euston to Birmingham line, for much less outlay than HS2 calls for.  More of the route was quadruple back in the 1950s ; parts were later reduced to double, and 20-30 years ago some were put back to quadruple to relieve congestion.  Spending billions for another (only partially separate) route just to save 10 or 15 minutes on a relatively short journey gives very poor value for money.  That is why it is called a Vanity Project, as much of its political value is to show that we can imitate the French - who have rather more space to do it in.

As things stand, HS2 will not even reach an existing terminus (unlike HS1) and trains will end in west London somewhere near Ealing.  And of course it will have only negative benefit for those disrupted by its passage nearby, as they can't use it - no stations !

That is a very good point, it applies to the West Coast main line, and similarly to the East Coast Main Line. Any government which is serious about upgrading the rail link ought to take a strategic look at the entire network, no doubt a similar situation applies on other routes too, but my rail experience is  mainly confined to those 2 routes in particular the ECML where an even better job of upgrading could have been done with more forethought ( like use of former RAF Alconbury and Finningley as an additional London airport, too late for Alconbury now). The big expense of this route would be the quadrupling of Welwyn Viaduct and its approaches.
As regards the foul up in London with no main lines continuous from south of London to the North, blame this on the 19th century House of Lords and in the main the Duke of Westminster who would have vetoed the lines unless they did not cross Euston Road.

[melba_schmelba]

  I can't comment on HS2 being a vanity project, or the politics involved, and I do appreciate that it is very disruptive for those in its path. But we also need to upgrade our rail network and other infrastructure projects; the trouble is that we have so little space not already in use or beloved for some other reason.

We could have 'upgraded' (rather than added to) our network by improving the Euston to Birmingham line, for much less outlay than HS2 calls for.  More of the route was quadruple back in the 1950s ; parts were later reduced to double, and 20-30 years ago some were put back to quadruple to relieve congestion.  Spending billions for another (only partially separate) route just to save 10 or 15 minutes on a relatively short journey gives very poor value for money.  That is why it is called a Vanity Project, as much of its political value is to show that we can imitate the French - who have rather more space to do it in.

As things stand, HS2 will not even reach an existing terminus (unlike HS1) and trains will end in west London somewhere near Ealing.  And of course it will have only negative benefit for those disrupted by its passage nearby, as they can't use it - no stations !

Have just been catching up with the 3 part series 'Britain's Biggest Dig' on BBC TWO, am I right in thinking that the HS2 terminus will no longer be at Euston, will they turn it back into a park again I wonder ?! There was an exhibition about the people of the cemetery at St. James' Piccadilly last year, you can see some description and a little video on it below, it says the exhibition transferred to Camden, but not sure where exactly

https://mediacentre.hs2.org.uk/news/new-hs2-exhibition-reveals-the-untold-stories-of-a-london-burial-ground

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpJK11PzemU

the 3 part series
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m000mmrf/britains-biggest-dig

[Redroger]

[quote author=Redroger link=topic=80

As regards the foul up in London with no main lines continuous from south of London to the North, blame this on the 19th century House of Lords and in the main the Duke of Westminster who would have vetoed the lines unless they did not cross Euston Road.
[/quote]
Feeling a little stroppy tonight, so perhaps it would have been a good idea that the lines now be made to cross Euston Road, preferably on level crossings at grade. Imagine what a line straight out of the front of Kings Cross at grade and continuing on to the Southern Termini would do to road traffic, say 60 trains an hour out of the front of Kings Cross for a start.

[Rena]

Do we actually own anything these days?     I thought the French were major shareholders in most things British.

I remember  the "Beeching Cuts" to the railways, due to the maintenance being 8 men per mile as opposed to one man per mile to maintain the road network.

[Lensmeister]

ORR, RSSB and Network Rail do not want new level crossings at all anymore.

Same with 3rd Rail