Bradley/Brodley - Campbeltown, Argyllshire - any help appreciated

[wivenhoe]

VIC BDM death
1919 / 1277 BOARD   Ella Ethel Audrey parents Cave Thos Leigh / Ferdinan (Bradley)

1938 / 6314 CAVE Francis James   parents CAVE Thomas Lee   / Ferdenend (Brodley)

Her children are familiar with this name.

[wivenhoe]

Highland and Island Emigration Society - what information do you see for the BRODLEYs?.

Are they described as siblings?

Census Scotland 1841  at East Bay Argyll
FERNANDER Sarah  20y  b. foreign parts
BARR John  30y merchant b. Scotland
BARR Mary  20y   b. England
BARR Catherine  1y   b. Scotland
McKENZIE Dolly  20y       b. Scotland
LARK Margt         25y       b. Scotland

BDM VIC death
1919 / 9205 BRADLEY Chas  parents UKN / UKN 
died RMOND   86 years

How have you identified this man to be Charles, arr. Sir Allan McNabb, 1853 Tas?

At some time after 1853, Anne BRODLEY has reason to believe that her origins include the  family name FERANDER. I think it is a family name, not a given name.

If her age on shipping record does not match the age you see for the family, 1841 Census, the family in the Census is possibly not your family.

Margaret CARTER and Anne CAVE  would seem to have continued contact over the years, so you might consider that Margaret is the source of FERNANDER information to Anne?

Mercury 14 Feb 1885 p1
CARTER—CAVE.—On January 22, at 126, Thistlethwaite-street, South Melbourne, by the Rev. F. Jolly, William Henry, eldest son of the late Samuel CARTER, contractor, to Julia, second daughter of
Thomas CAVE, of Constitution Hill, Tasmania.

PROV website -
Will of Margaret CARTER, written 2 Jun 1902, died 9 Sep 1909, of 107 Thistlethwaite At South Melbourne

[gennig]

Highland and Island Emigration Society - what information do you see for the BRODLEYs?.
Are they described as siblings?

They are grouped together on the shipping list.  Margaret 1st, then Anne & last Charles.
No they are not described as siblings.  They come from the same place.

BDM VIC death
1919 / 9205 BRADLEY Chas  parents UKN / UKN 
died RMOND   86 years

How have you identified this man to be Charles, arr. Sir Allan McNabb, 1853 Tas?

I have Charles Bradley's death certificate, his grand niece (Margaret's daughter) was the informant.
He is buried at Coburg Cemetery with Thomas John Le Busque, Margaret's Son in law. Charles was a Sailor when he died.

At some time after 1853, Anne BRODLEY has reason to believe that her origins include the  family name FERANDER. I think it is a family name, not a given name.

If her age on shipping record does not match the age you see for the family, 1841 Census, the family in the Census is possibly not your family.


Margaret CARTER and Anne CAVE  would seem to have continued contact over the years, so you might consider that Margaret is the source of FERNANDER information to Anne?

Neither Margaret or Anne had any education, when they married they signed with a X.  This was also stated on the Shipping list.  Charles on the other hand had received some education.

I thought Anne was short for Ferdinand as it can be a girls name.  Why do you think it's a surname?

Anne's age is all over the place and never consistent, marriage cert indicates circa 1836.  Her death notice indicates Circa 1840.  Shipping Record circa 1837.  1841 census Circa 1840. 

I have gathered all of the Australian information and have most of the relevant certificates.

regards

Genni

 

[wivenhoe]

I am thinking that Ferd* is a family name because I am not familiar with Ferdinand as a female given name?....in Scotland?.....in the early 19th century?

Ann is not identified by this name, or referred to by others, until.....when?.........late 1890s?

What is the earliest use that you see of that name for Ann?

I think it is possible that Margaret, Ann and Charles are related, but I would keep an open mind about them being two sisters and their brother. They might be step / half siblings....two siblings and a cousin?.

Siblings often give to their own children as given names, the names of their own siblings.

I can see Anne and Margaret have a son Charles.......Ann does not have a Margaret.........Margaret does not have a Ferd*

Are the records for the Highland and Island Emigration Society accessible online?

Do you have a marriage and children for Charles BRODLEY?

Can you scan his death certificate and place here for us to see?

If Margaret, Ann and Charles are described as orphans, 1853...........then they have been orphans for a long time ie. no younger BRODLEY siblings for them.

Or......the Highland and Island Emigration Society has a minimum age for orphans. What is the lowest age, (youngest) that  you see for emigrants described as orphans on the Sir Allan McNAB?

If Margaret, Ann and Charles have been orphaned for many years, then for the 1851 census they might  not be living with a parent, or all living together. That might even be the case for the 1841 census.

Ann gives the name CANMORE to a son. Is this a CAVE or BRODLEY family name?

For census, Scotland, records I see CANMORE / CANMOUR / CRANMORE / CRANMOUR family names.

On the Highland and Island Emigration Society file - who else do you see with these locations -
" Parish of Saddell and Skipness.  Their residence was given as Lochmore Kintyre."


"..Charles Bradley's death certificate, his grand niece (Margaret's daughter) was the informant."

And Margaret's daughter would be a niece to Charles, brother of Margaret?

[gennig]

Hi Wivenhoe

Charles Bradley/Brodley never married.
He was a sailor - I've attached his death certificate.

The informant was Violet Dynes (nee Le Busque) daughter of Margaret Jane Carter & Thomas John Le Busque.  Charles was living with her family when he died.

While Anne & Charles were born in Scotland, they were of Irish descent, their mother was Irish.  I don't know what nationality their father was, but believe he was a mariner and named John.

Yes, Ann used Canmore as well as McEwan as middle names for her children.  I think Anne started using Ferdinan late 1890's.  I'm thinking maybe she learned to read & write, her husband could, she may have decided to she liked the name.  Her husband started using Leigh/Lee in his name around the same time.  Her granddaughter born in 1897 was called Ferdinan Maria.

When the three of them arrived in Hobart, they were put into Farm service. Margaret moved to Victoria before Anne was married, so they would have had little opportunity to see each other and Margaret never learned to write.

Cheers

Genni

[Deb McG]

Hi Genni, I am a direct descendant of John Brodie/Bradley the father of Margaret, I was born in Campbeltown Argyll Scotland.  My Mother was a Brodie. Campbeltown is 11 miles across the sea from Antrim and you can see the Antrim Coast from it on a clear day. The Bradleys came from Rathlin Island off the Antrim Coast and settled in Campbeltown and Surrounding areas in the late 1700s to early 1800s. Some stayed behind and relocated to Ballymena and other coastal areas. They scattered all over the world from Ireland due to the Protestant church taking over the lands. The Bradleys and others refused to pay a Protestant church money. The Bradley's/Brodley/Brodie's were at one time Catholics and became Protestants in Argyll. (Although some argue they weren't Catholics, they were indeed). They were well known Masons, Merchant Sailors and fishermen; they owned a fleet of fishing boats. Some of their boats were named after their daughters, The Helen, The Edith, The Janet and The Wanderer.  Lorne Cottage in Campbeltown still stands today built by Neil and John Brodie in 1885 and has family residing in it till this day. The Old Bradley Bible resides in Lorne Cottage. I have quite a few photos of the Bradleys taken in the 1800s. There was one sister changed her name to Brolachan and buried in Kilkerran, some changed to Brosnan in other lands and other variations. Kilkerran cemetery in Campbeltown holds a lot of the Brodie family graves. These sites might be of use to you, especially My Ain folk. I will see what I can find on Margaret. All the Best Deb in America.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/captcha.jsp       
https://www.myainfolk.ca/
http://ralstongenealogy.com/
https://www.findagrave.com/

[gennig]

Hi Deb

What a surprise, to get a reply to this post, I haven't been on Rootschat in ages.

Do you descend from Margaret's brother John?  I believe I have worked out Ann's (John's wife) maiden name, McEwan or Mcewing.

Margaret, Ann & Charles Bradley/Brodley came to Australia via the Highland immigration.  Sailed on the "Sir Allen McNab"  They were orphans, their youngest brother Archibald McAlister stayed in Scotland and lived with one of his McAlister brothers. 

Please send me a private message, I'd love to share information.

regards

GEnni