John Allard

[Richview]

Your very welcome, hopefully I have been able to point your in the direction of the records available.
I have no direct connection with the family , I was just asked to help someone with research, I have been assisting people with family history for many years.

R

[High hall]

Thanks again 

[Philly007]

I have just found this chat on the Forum and hope that you may pick up this post although nearly twelve months later.
I am Henry John Allard's daughter Phyllis, my father was known as "Harry". He was a shop keeper and market trader. When I was first born we lived at 43 Ladypool Road, Sparkbrook and my father rented a shop across the road which my mother ran. (His father also lived at this house before I was born) He was mainly a market trader and sold leather goods which he made himself. We later lived behind a shop in Prince of Wales Lane. My father had another shop in Newtown Row as well. He was well known as Harry the market trader in the 1960s.I understand he used to travel around the country selling these bags and purses before he married my mum (Phyllis Snape, Alan Snape's mother).
My dad kept his family history pretty much to himself although he did confide in me as we used to travel to the market in Newtown Row on a Saturday morning. I also didn't really confide in anyone until 2000s when I was surprised my older half brother Alan Snape didn't know about the manslaughter case.
The story has told to me by my father was that John Allard his father was a horrible violent man and had been a leader of a gang when young and was later very involved with a race course and betting gang in Birmingham. (My father was a bookies runner when young and could do the TicTac on the course). John Allard used to collect the money from the races (this may have been protection money or bookmakers takings I'm not sure)
On the day of the attack he had noticed two travellers (that were known to him) were watching him. Apparently he threatened them and warned them off early in the day. Later when he was taking the betting money to be dropped off (I can't remember quite where but I remember my father saying it was a lot of money), he noticed them again, he shouted a warning and swore at them. They continued to follow so he faced up to them and a fight developed, he always carried an umberella with a sharp point for protection when he travelled alone and this is what he used to defend himself with, stabbing Cutler the traveller in the eye. The other traveller ran off and the money was never mentioned. My father said several police offers were on the Gangs payroll. The witnesses spoke up for my grandfather and he was later charged with manslaughter not murder.
Shortly after coming out of Prison John Allard threw a man out of an upstairs window- this was reportedly the other traveller but my father wasn't so sure it was him, possibly someone else. He was probably establishing his position again in the gang. He seems to travel to different racecourses quite a lot and his part in the Epson Fight as a member of the 'Brummagem Boys' is recorded.
My father disliked his father so much he ran away several times, one time he went with a circus and another travelled with Romany gypsies and I believe this is when he met Silena whom he had at least one child possibly two with - Lena Susie and Jackie (a boy). Lena once told me Jackie wasn't my fathers son but I thought he looked very like my father.
My father was Henry John Allard although I saw printed cards with Jack Allard, John Henry Allard and Harry Allard on. There were also different professions on the various cards: painter, shop keeper (haberdasher) and market trader. I think its best not to read to much into my family's professions!
He told me the family came from France originally and that they had fled from there with nothing in the 18th century. Joseph and Lydia are definitely part of my family, I traced back to Joseph some years ago (Born 1816 Packwood). If I remember right he died of drink while living in Kings Norton.

I have tried to trace Joseph's parents but have found nothing relating to Packwood, another researcher says he may be nothing to do with Packwood, Joseph also listed Knowle somewhere else. I also found several different dates of birth for him.

[Richview]

Good Morning,

I researched the Allard family sometime ago, your father was correct Jack Allard was indeed an extremely violent and dangerous man. I'll try to keep this short, it begins with Jack marrying Mary "Ann" O'Hara April 1893, within months of marriage Jack violently assaulted a policemen. He had many sentences before 1912  and used numerous aliases.

1st March 1912 he was charged with murder, there are many newspaper articles worldwide about the case. Charles Cutler was a Commercial Traveller and bookies runner, late 1911 Allard had beaten the man, on the day in question they had rowed, Cutler went home to his widowed mother and said he had been threatened. He spent the evening at his home with his girlfriend, when walking her home Allard came out of the shadows and attacked him, Cutler was in a coma died the next day. Cutler had been beaten then stabbed with the umbrella. Passers by restrained Allard who showed no remorse, he was arrested laughing and threatened the PC's that he would shoot them.

The trial Allard used witnesses to convince the jury , the charge was then reduced to manslaughter,
after the trial his previous convictions were revealed - perhaps had they known there were 11 for violent assault , things would have been very different and Allard would have indeed faced the death sentence.

It is strange that when Allard was released from jail he did not return to Mary but gave his address as 19 Essex Street the home of his son William who also had an interesting past!

There is little known about John Allard pre marriage, my belief he was born  to a single woman Mary Allard at Belper workhouse 1870, 1891 he joined the army but his new career was short lived he failed to report for training.

When Henry was 37 his occupation lorry driver /mechanic, he lived with Selina and two children John b 1924, Lina b 1928.

 

[Philly007]

Thanks for details of your research, I have seen several newspaper articles myself and details of many of his crimes often in places where there were race courses under numerous alias. My father told me he had a different name in every town. Some newspaper articles call Cutler a traveller and others a commercial traveller and my father was quite definite there were two travellers. The pointed umbrella fits in with what my father told me many years ago and the newspapers reports were written when all of his violent records were known, indeed if the jury had been aware of his history things would probably have gone a different way.  My father never called his father Jack only John but said his name was Henry John and he was named after him- Jack -another alias probably.  My father was known as Harry.
My father son was only known to me and immediate family as Jackie but this could be nickname - Lena called him Jackie. 
I wouldn't read too much into addresses given or occupations, since I have recently looked into family history and old records again and found more old printed cards with slightly different names, addresses and professions. I also found the grave certificate for my grand parents grave.
Briefly I traced the family back to Joseph Allard born 1815 married to Lydia Wragg their son Henry Allard was born 1842.

[Richview]

Much depends on what you read and what records are available. Some crimes were committed at or near racecourses but there was larceny, housebreaking, violent assault outside his home ,in a public house. He used aliases O'hara, Wilson,Halland, christian names John or Jack, when his son was arrested at the races he was working for Jack Allard Sr bookmaker.

There are court records and newspaper accounts prior to the manslaughter charge the court records obviously are in my view accurate.

Charles Cutler was the son of Hannah born Warwickshire her husband died between 1901-1911 you can trace him easily on the census records, 1911 his occupation was indeed a Commercial Traveller, he was 1 of 8 children , 3 were living 1911.

There is no mention of Charles Cutler being of Romany decent I think his father came from Worcestershire. The first news report said Commercial Traveller and that matches perfectly with the census.

The addresses again match perfectly, if you look at the death certificate on Mr Snapes family tree,
the informant was his son of 19 Essex Street, that is a match to the address when John Allard was released from jail.

[Philly007]

Yes I did not mean all crimes were near race courses just many of the ones I have found on various sites, I have also found some in Birmingham and you obviously found the aliases I found or knew of. I definitely know both he and my father worked the race courses because I met a bookmaker my father knew in the late 1950s.
Going back years ago there was quite a difference between Romanys and travellers- my father travelled with the Romanys and lived with one Silena, he never called them travellers. I understood traveller to mean he was a tough guy who travelled around the country but I was only a young girl when my father confided in me about his early life and violent father and am only remembering what I was told. We never spoke of his father again really and I didn't tell anyone  until Barbara Allard contacted me around 2010 and she researched it. I then mentioned it to other family members.  Mr Snape is Alan Snape my half brother and obviously I discussed the family history at length with him.
*I have a year of birth for my grandfather of 1872/73 mother Mary Oram.
Are you a family member?

[Richview]

No I am not related , I was asked to research the family several years ago.

It would make sense that both sons indeed followed their father as bookmakers - I know from the court information that William was arrested on suspicion of "Welshing" using the name of Jack Allard Jr.

Romany Travellers, Fairground Travellers, with an occupation traveller that would imply that the person was a travelling salesman now known as a sales rep.

Mary Oram may be his mother, I did rule her out as John Allard  gave his date of birth late 1868 - 1871, I settled on him being born 1870 at Belper, that was confirmed in a book I later read.

I checked my file re Charles Cutler and can confirm he was not Romany his father Hiram Israel Cutler died 1906 was a publican, brewer and provision merchant. Charles may have been involved in the bookmaking business but I think we must be mindful he had already had previous problems with John Allard, I have read the press reports again and all state he was walking from his family home when attacked.