Thomas Roberts & Catherine Williams m 6/8/1883 St Michael, Aigburth

[Gordon Hughes]

Hi,
I'm trying to trace the ancestry of Catherine Williams from the following marriage:

Marriage: 6 Aug 1883 St Michael in the Hamlet, Aigburth, Lancashire, England
Thomas Roberts - 21, Milk Dealer, Bachelor, Greaves St
Catherine Williams - 21, Spinster, Bran St
Groom's Father: Thomas Roberts, Baker
Bride's Father: William Williams, Master Mariner
Witness: George Runacus; Annie Williams

I know they had a son Thomas Roberts born on the 30th September 1885, at which time they were living at Greaves Street but I can find no apparent census record for Catherine prior to their marriage in 1883, or for the family after their marriage, so I have no way of knowing whether she was born in Liverpool or possibly North Wales.

I have been able to trace Thomas Roberts snr. back in time (the witness George Runacus was his brother-in-law) but can''t get a fix on Catherine at all. The witness Annie Williams may be her sister or her mother but I've now way of figuring it out. I've pretty much exhausted all the usual resources so if anyone on this forum has some ideas they would be gratefully received.

Many thanks, Gordon.

p.s. I have also posted this on lswlfhs.org.uk

[Milliepede]

Maybe she came over from Ireland and went back there after the marriage 

[Milliepede]

Difficult with such common names and bit convoluted but this family has a father in law William Williams living with them.  All born Liverpool.   

1891 Toxteth Liverpool

Thomas Roberts 30 head
Catherine  28 wife
Edith A 5 daughter
Thomas H 7 months son
William Williams 56 father in law
Elizabeth A Milne 17 sister in law

Probably not right but worth checking out.

Have you checked the addresses from the marriage in 1881/1891 for any sightings?

[Gordon Hughes]

I don't think so.

Let me give a bit more context: Through DNA matching it seems I am related to a descendant of Thomas Roberts, the son of Thomas and Catherine. The connection probably lies through Catherine to my Welsh ancestors in North Wales, a lot of whom were Williams from the Llanaber/Barmouth area. They were mainly farmers but it's possible that there were some mariners in the family, and possibly even from the Bangor and Anglesey region.

Thomas Roberts snr. parents were Thomas Roberts b 1828 in Malpas Cheshire to be found at Henderson Street, Toxteth Park, with his wife Elizabeth, b 1829,  from Seacombe (1881 census). 

Thanks, Gordon.

[Milliepede]

Catherine Williams - 21, Spinster, Bran St

Do we know where Bran St is or was - anywhere near Greaves St?

[ShaunJ]

On that 1891 Toxteth census page William "Williams" is a general labourer. The surname has been crossed out and "Miller" written above it.

[ColC]

Two possible baptisms below: Father a Mariner

Abode not cleat Ahol? St.
Catherine Mary Williams   12 Mar 1865   Liverpool   William Williams,Alice Williams

Possible Hospital Patient 1871 & Servant 1881 both in Liverpool.


Abode Townsend St, North
Catharine Ellen Williams   6 Nov 1859   Liverpool   William Williams,Hannah Williams

I think it is likely that Catherine Ellen is in Bangor, Caernarvonshire Wales in 1861 & 1871
On both occasions with a Mary Jones

1861 = Catherine E Williams   abt 1858   Liverpool   Nursing

1871 = Catherine Ellin Williams   abt 1858   Liverpool   Niece   Bangor, Caernarvonshire

Colin

[Gordon Hughes]

Yes, I saw the 1891 census entry, but that William Williams is a general labourer not a Master Mariner.

As for the address, I'm always a bit wary about setting too much store by them. People moved house frequently just to save a few pennies on rent. The absence of a house number in marriage records can be an issue, because you would get people of the same nationality or occupation congregating in the same street, which means you could get several William Williams and Catherine Williams living in the same street which could be full of Welsh, Mariners, or Welsh Mariners !

[ShaunJ]

Do we know where Bran St is or was - anywhere near Greaves St?

On this map Greaves Street is just to the east of Toxteth baths and Bran Street is a short distance to the south, the other side of Mill Street: http://www.liverpool-city-group.com/street-guide-1901/g4.htm