John Spence - Cullen Old Kirk

[Fordyce]

agray1949, I agree that the age looks like 64. This implies he was born 1785/86. He is recorded as 55 in the 1841 census which is consistent. His death is recorded in the Preshome Catholic registers as 31 Mar 1850 (at Baads, Cullen) - annoyingly his entry is about the only one where no age is given!

His wife was born 1782/83 per 1851 census and MI, so a few years older.

Grandchildren were born/baptised as Catholics, and indeed Spences seemed to be mainly Catholic, so I wonder why the parents would be buried in the Old Kirkyard?

My interest was in their daughter Helen Spence who married John Geddes (no relation of mine) - the marriage was proclaimed in both the Parish Church and Preshome Chapel; their daughter Margaret Geddes married James Taylor Clark (who is a relation of mine) - they married in the Free Church.

[agray1949]

Thanks for everyones help. I have just heard from the Moray Burial Research Group that it is age 64 as shown on their photo much clearer. I have asked for a copy so will wait & see.

[Forfarian]

If MBRG says 64, it's 64. They are very meticulous.

[runmerry]

I was at the library today and out of curiosity I looked at both the sources given in libindx.

The C(O)84 refers to the card index and his age on that is 61.

There is also misc. ref. to a book published in 1883 "The Church and Churchyard of Cullen" which has a list of the gravestone inscriptions in it.  No.98 is John Spence and the age is 64.

 I think I would go with the age in the book as it was published when the stone was not so old and therefore would have been clearer.

Regards

Jen 

[runmerry]

Also meant to add inscription in book

Erected in memory of John Spence, farmer, Baads, died 31 March 1850 aged 64
also of Jean Wilson his spouse who died 13 August 1862 aged 79

Jen

[Forfarian]

The C(O)84 refers to the card index and his age on that is 61.

In 1978-1979 Moray Council had a Job Creation team go out and record all the inscriptions on all the stones in all the graveyards and cemeteries in Moray. That's the modern version of Moray, not the historic county of Moray, and it includes all of the historic county minus the parish of Cromdale, Inverallan and Advie, plus about two-thirds of Banffshire.

C(O) stands for Cullen Old and 84 is the number of the stone on the plan drawn by the team when they did the survey. There is a card index with a card for every stone, and the card has the actual inscription. All the names on all the cards are indexed on LIBINDX.

However it is known that errors occurred in the 1978-1979 survey, and the Moray Burial Grounds Research Group is going over all the burial grounds making more accurate records and bringing the records up to date.

[agray1949]

Thanks again to all who contributed special thanks to Forfarian  for the explanation at the end.
I reckon I can call it a day on this request as I have the information I was after.

[Indiana.59]

Libindx have his death as aged 64 but they also state that he was born in 1789 (which would make him 61)

Actually they say his date of birth is c.1789 - in other words they don't claim to have a definite date of birth for him.

He is 64 if you enlarge the photo you can just see the little - coming out of the back of the 4 <---

[agray1949]

Hello folks
I am back on the trail of John Spence & thought I would ask for opinions on a slightly "left field" question.
It has been agreed that his age on the Headstone was 64 & the 1841 census gives him an age of 55.
Working on the principal that the 1841 census ages were rounded down to the next age that could mean that he could have been between 55 & 59 giving him a birth year between 1782 & 1786.
If their was an error on the gravestone,  were they sure about his age & could they read it to be certain.
So my question is that if there was an error & he was actually born in 1782 which would be closer to his wife's age there is an entry on S/P OPR's for a John Spens born 12/2/1782 at Morlach, Banffshire. Parents were John Spens & Helen Stewart.
Two of John & Jean's children were called John(1807) & Helen (1818).
Can anyone find an answer to prove this birth in 1782 wrong.