Author Topic: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher  (Read 44620 times)

Offline panished

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #180 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 21:40 BST (UK) »
Sky

 Whos Viney Boswell, i heared of the famouse Lawrence and i think Edward but whos Viney, i know there are these lines that have been talked about, i wander where it all started, and who started the line talk, if you go back in time i bet there was no such thing as a line     

 

Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #181 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 21:43 BST (UK) »
Not sure who Viney is, I only purchase the book because it stated Wilsher family in the book list...


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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #182 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 21:49 BST (UK) »
 not to worry i will write back regarding what information i have found about the Wilshers soon,
i do not intend to keep writing for to much longer, i must finish the writings of the WW1 for sure but i will put all the records on here that i have found that may help you, remember use the information contained in the records as guiding clues like Alverthorpe, you find lots of good information yourself and have done a good job in researching, i read through all your words, keep up the good work, well done

michael x

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #183 on: Wednesday 10 June 20 11:50 BST (UK) »

Sky

I found a few more reports about a Noah and a Sarah, i try to read many records that each hold different clues then take all the clues as a whole,you never told of the date that Sarah Wilsher was with Noah Boswell in the Viney book, does it match these records, if not keep in mind everything, the bigger picture must always be the main point of focus



Saturday 28 May 1864
  Cheshire Observer
  Cheshire

CHESTER CITY POLICE COURT
 
Three  gipsies, whose appearance sufficiently proclaimed the race to which they belonged, were brought up on suspicion of having unlawful possession of  some silver spoons,. Their names were John Gray, Noah Boswell, and Sarah Boswell. The prisoners it appeared had attempted to pawn the spoons with Mr. Burton, but he having a suspicion of their honesty, referred them to the police office. The spoons, it seemed, had all been marked, but the mark on one had been obliterated. Gray with a good deal of vehemence, said the magistrates need not trouble themselves to much about a few spoons, for he had a hundred pawn -tickets in his purse. Boswell then offered the following explanation of the circumstance's
 
 ………………..At a Rate of 4s. 6d. an ounce. He pawned them again at Mackesfield  May Fair and after taking them out was going to pawn them again at Bartons. He could bring the woman he bought them of as a witness.The case was accordingly adjourned for the pro- duction of this witness. A squabble their arose about the custody of the spoons. Mr. Hill said he would keep them until the case was reheard. Gray, however, raised  a violent protest against this proceeding, declaring in a loud tone that he would not leave his property. His  companions by no means sympathised in his feelings, and showed their disapprobation  unmistakable, that a disturbance seemed on the point of breaking out before the eyes of their worships. Eventually he was persuaded to acquiesce in the remand, and the parties left the court. 

Wednesday 01 June 1864
  Chester Courant
  Cheshire


John Gray, Noah Boswell, and Sarah Boswell, three gipsies, were brought up for being in possession of property supposed to have been stolen. It seems that one of the male prisoners had gone to Mr Burton's the day before, and offered some silver spoons in pledge, but the pawnbroker seeing different crests upon the spoons and that some had been erased, stopped them and sent for the police Gray stated that he bought the spoons of a woman who had them in pawn in Liverpool, some months back, and that he had since pawned them in Mackesfield; be gave 4s. 6d. an ounce for them. The woman here corroborated his statement, and said she wanted him to buy a horse instead. The Bench decided to retain the spoons until the woman produced the person of whom they were bought, and to endeavour to find the proper owner. The gipsies agreed to this and left the court, dragging with them the one who had paid for the spoons, and who would not leave them until assured by his companions that they would see he should not lose them.     
 


 Wednesday 01 June 1864
 Chester Courant
  Cheshire


UNFORTUNATE GIPSIES AGAIN.—Two of the gipsies, man and wife, came up to make an effort to regain the spoons in pounded on the previous day. One stated that he was in the habit of investing his money in silver plate, and carrying it about with him from fair to fair, pawning it when be wanted money. In proof of this he produced a silver butter boat and spoons from one pocket, and about a hundred pawn tickets from another. Mr Hill said that Mr Brown, of the Heraldic Office, Bold-square, had the spoons to see by the crests to whom they belonged, and he wished to advertise them in the Hue and Cry. The Bench recommended a call by the asserted owners about the July fair, as they left, the woman satirically observing to her companion, Don't cry ; it wont ruin you if you lose them.


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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #184 on: Thursday 11 June 20 11:27 BST (UK) »
 

Sky
I just wanted to show you some records that may help you in the future, i have tryed to find records north of Sheffield....Whitwood-mere thornes castleford Wakefield Alverthorpe Flanshaw these places are close to each other and more places, this is just an outline, i do not know nothing really of who is who on the internet on that web site called the Romany i read this record stating Edward was an Hawker...Edward Wilshire Selina, Bc 1856 Roastone, Alverthorpe  Thornes, Yorkshire, so i have just wrote down a few of the records in mostly extracts for you, from reading story's up of accounts of those times i think there was a pottery manufactures near by and this is what made this area desirable to people who then stayed and settled round this place, if you read into some of the records i am sure some lived in houses or used houses at certain times, the Adams i saw on a record camping in the same place as the Wilshers, i think you or Sue found that, they are pot hawkers from a long time i think they have the Gipsy in them, the Smiths and Winters are connected to the Wilshers and they to seem to be around those areas, these records are by no means a statement of truth i just found them and think on them, use the names and dates of the story's to form a bigger picture and combine everything with the census reports to learn what truth you may derive from such accounts, you may find that a Winter or a Wilshaw was just a local man and only the name gave a wrong clue, well this is good research, well worth finding out, i will not be writing to you much after this, maybe once or twice but maybe never, i will post on your Nelson page for you but this may be the last time i address you, if you want to ask me anything you can, anything in the world i am not troubled by nothing and was born for sure unchained and not a thing may shackle me, i will die free as well, anyway look through these next few posts, i will of course finally write up all the Wilsher records and just put them on here but will not write after that, i was going to do a massive research on the Woman doing the fortunetelling, i have hundreds of records i am sure they can be traced back through time in the ways families fortunetold, there was many ways and like a spiders web they may connect to each other like an old secret map, but i will not be able time wise to achieve the task, i will finish the WW1 stories though, well at least take them so far and another writer will one day finish what i started for i will not know enough to be able to do justice for all the Dead, anyway read these next not as truth and great value in the sence they are groundbreaking, no just look with your eyes, the bigger picture is what i think a persons aim must be, i have often read of or seen paintings of Gipsies and the painter or writer focuses in on a scene, everyone wants to see and read of such rich things, i look and read in the shadows for there you will see the unseen child pairing out from beneath a wagon, she is holding onto the spokes of a mighty wheel, everything is happening around the glistening warm camp fire, drinking singing getting along, but i see the child and i wonder, what do you think child, in the shadows you look, then i am looking through their eyes, this is how i research and more, and true, why i research, but i do want to share everything i find so everyone else with see through the eyes, that are unpainted

 Saturday 07 September 1872
 Wakefield Free Press
  Yorkshire

  Smith, a gipsy, and a pot hawker, living at Beck Bottom, Alverthorpe, was charged with being the owner of a cart and not having his name ..............

Saturday 07 October 1876
  Wakefield and West Riding Herald
  Yorkshire
 
ALVERTHORPE.  The Coroner, T. Taylor. Esq., on Saturday last held an investigation. Into the circumstances attending the death of Mr George Fairness.   Emma Fairness, it would seem that on Friday morning deceased arose about eight o'clock ... but had nothing to eat, simply supping two cups of tea. He then asked his wife for a piece of rope, stating that he wished to raise some ………………….when they had gone through two fields deceased crept through a gap in the hedge. and walked round a shed in the field. Edward Wiltshire, pot hawker gave similar evidence, and the jury returned a verdict to the effect that deceased ........


Saturday 17 November 1877
  Wakefield and West Riding Herald
  Yorkshire

 WAKEFIELD POLICE INTELLIGENCE
  Thoms. Adams. pot hawker, Wellington street. Whitwood Mere, charged with having been drunk and disorderly on the highway, at ... lived in a house

  Saturday 14 September 1878
  Wakefield Free Press
  Yorkshire

WAKEFIELD POLICE COURTS

 Wm. Winter, who did not appear, was charged with drunkenness at Alverthorpe, where he temporarily lives as a gipsy. On the 30th ult. Police constable Dooley found him squaring about in the village, and his friends had the greatest difficulty in getting him within doors —Ordered to pay 12s. 6d., or seven days.

 Saturday 17 May 1879
  Wakefield Express
  Yorkshire


 Joseph Wiltshire, pot hawker, Alverthorpe, who was represented by his wife, was charged with allowing two horsed to stray on the highroad at that place on the 7th instant—About two o'clock on the morning in question Police-constable Orate found the horses straying on the road.  Mrs.Wiltshire, who said the horses got out of the stable accidentally, had to pay the expense's..

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #185 on: Thursday 11 June 20 11:38 BST (UK) »
  Saturday 01 May 1880
  Dewsbury Reporter
  Yorkshire

THORNHILL.   At the Petty Sessions, Monday, before W. Blakeley, Esq., and other justices. Edward Wilshaw, pedlar, was charged with hawking without a license. Police constable Mitchell found prisoner hawking baskets on Saturday ..........


Saturday 18 February 1882
 Wakefield Free Press
  Yorkshire


BOROUGH COURT.— Before Alderman MILTRORP, (Mayor), and Mr. W. H. GILL –
 upwards of 70 cases were brought before the court this (Friday) morning, in which the defendants were charged with having to take out a license for the dogs they kept …… co-operattie storekeeper; surgeon pallier colliery deputy travelling actor Mayor of Pontefract gamekeeper  magic lantern proprietor verger at Woodlesford Church , publican artist gardener and seedsman, straw stealer,  school-mistress,  a reverend Joseph Wiltshire, hawker, Alverthorpe  were ordered to pay the costs 10s. in each. A charge against William Turner, labourer, of New Scarborough, was dismissed on the ground that the dog belonged to his daughter. The hearing of the above cases occupies' considerable time, and as will be seen from the list of the defaulters they included all class of men. 

Saturday 01 September 1883
 Wakefield Free Press
  Yorkshire

MISCELLANEOUS OFFENCES. —At the West Riding Court to-day, before Mr. Percy 'Few, and Mr. W. H: Lee, Jane Wiltshire, married woman, Alverthorpe, was fined  9s. 6d including costs, for drunkenness at Oulton. 
 
 
Saturday 03 November 1883
 Wakefield and West Riding Herald
  Yorkshire

LOCAL NOTES
  …………..Jane Wiltshire. aged 70. a hawker, of Alverthorpe. completes the quartette, she having receivesd some injuries to her right side by falling downstairs……………….
 

Saturday 03 November 1883
  Wakefield Free Press
  Yorkshire

 LOCAL & DISTRICT

……………Jane Wiltshire, 70, hawker, Alverthorpe, injured ribs and leg……………

 
Saturday 24 May 1884
 Yorkshire Gazette
  Yorkshire

DISTRICT NEWS
……….... Kirkby, near Pontefract, was charged with stealing a copper handbell, value 7s. 6d., the property of William Wiltshire, licensed hawker, of Alverthorpe, on the 13th inst., under the following peculiar circumstances : —On the above night prosecutor had his ...............

 
Saturday 31 May 1884
  Leeds Times
  Yorkshire
 
LOCAL & DISTRICT
  Two married women from Flanshaw, Alverthorpe, named Betsy Bean and Elizabeth Orange, were summoned at Wakefield yesterday, charged with an assault on Eliza Wiltshire, a neighbour. The latter was challenged out, and, on making her appearance, defendants fastened their hands in her hair, drew a quantity of that adornment away, and had to be dragged off by a man. Mrs. Bean and her friend had 10s. each to pay.


Saturday 07 November 1885
 Wakefield Free Press
  Yorkshire

 the following persons were fined for drunkenness : William Wiltshire, pot-hawker, Flanshaw, and John Mellor, miner, Bothwell, 15s each ; and Jane Wiltshire of Flanshaw, and George Nuttell, labourer, Bothwell, 12s 6d each. —Mary Ann Freer ...


Saturday 14 November 1885
 Wakefield Free Press
  Yorkshire

 —Joseph Wiltshire, pot hawker, Alverthorpe, for obstructing the highway at Crigelestene, was Fined..........   

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #186 on: Thursday 11 June 20 11:39 BST (UK) »
Joseph is wrote as a Wiltshaw in this record on the link below

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Wakefield/Wakefield87Dry

go on to this great web site to learn and see of near places and way of life as i talk of
 https://outwoodcommunityvideo.co.uk/site-map.html
zoom in to these photos of how a hawkers wagon could be in older times
https://outwoodcommunityvideo.co.uk/wrenthorpe-remembered-5/hawker-outside-the-malt.html
https://outwoodcommunityvideo.co.uk/robin-hood-remembered/r1_9.html

Saturday 26 February 1887
 Barnsley Chronicle, etc
  Yorkshire

 WEST RIDING COURT HOUSE
 A Negligent Driver Gawber-road. —Wm. Walshaw, of Alverthorpe, hawker, old man, was charged with leaving horse and dray on the highway at Gawber-road. on the 9th inst.—P.C. Raven proved that he found the dray on the road.—Fined 6s. and costs, or 14 days.

Saturday 26 March 1887
  Wakefield and West Riding Herald
  Yorkshire


WEST RIDING COURT
  …………….Fred Smith, pot hawker, Alverthorpe, was charged with breaking  some… ...

  Saturday 21 December 1895
  Wakefield and West Riding Herald
  Yorkshire

WEST RIDING COURT.
  Joseph Wiltshire, hawker. Alverthorpe, and kate Noon, rag picker, of the same place, were charged 

Saturday 16 November 1901
 Wakefield and West Riding Herald
  Yorkshire
 
WEST RIDING COURT.   
   Have the child vaccinated  .—James Winter.  hawker, described as of Alverthorpe, was ordered to have his child. Adingale. who was born on August 4th. 1899.vaccinated  within 14 days and pay the costs………………. 


Thursday 16 August 1928
 Yorkshire Evening Post
  Yorkshire

 Later the charm was opened and found to be a piece of coal. Mr. Pell (defending) said his client admitted having the money, which she intended to return. She had a good character, and was the mother of 6 children. 

Thursday 16 August 1928
 Hull Daily Mail
  Yorkshire

PEDLAR'S FRAUD
... in which Selina Wilshaw, pedlar, of Salter's Yard, Wakefield, was charged with obtaining the sum of £8 2s by false pretences from Clara Grant, married woman, of Home-street, Scunthorpe. Albert Pell, of Wakefield, defended, and accused pleaded Guilty............. 

   
  Friday 17 August 1928
  Leeds Mercury
  Yorkshire
 
 PIECE OF COAL AS CHARM. WAKEFIELD GIPSY “TELLS THE TALE.” (From Our Own Correspondent.) SCUNTHORPE, Thursday. How a piece of coal was given as a charm was related at the Police Court here to-day, when Selina Wilshaw, of Salter’s Yard, Wakefield, a gipsy hawker……………….. ...
 
Friday 17 August 1928
  Sheffield Independent
  Yorkshire

LUMP OF COAL
AS A CHARM.
WITCHCRAFT FRAUD ON
HELPLESS CRIPPLE.

Spell-binding by means of a charm wrapped in handkerchief, which proved afterwards to be a mere lump coal, was a feature of remarkable story told to the Scunthorpe magistrates yesterday, when Selina Wilshaw, of Salter's yard, Wakefield, was charged with stealing the sum  of £8. 2s. by false pretences. Accused, who pleaded guilty, was defended by Mr. Albert Pell, Wakefield. Mrs. Clara Grant ....

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #187 on: Thursday 02 July 20 12:17 BST (UK) »
Sky

  I found more Boswells, in records they say they share the same d.n.a from a while back, i do not know how it all works though, i am not much of nothing in the d.n.a world for i am only bits of this, and bits of that, i told the truth to everyone right from the first time i came on the internet, if you ever ask Sue from the Romany Genes web site She will back me up on that, i never tryed to be what i am not, my own Father was from the wild lands of Connaught way in the west of old Ireland, a baron land of much hardship, his own Mother came from the U.S.A for there she was born after her own people escaped the mass slaughter in Ireland at the times of the great famine, way back the 1800s, her family name was Kelly, my dad was born when Ireland was still under British rule before the 1920s, he left and came to England and worked the farms, eventually he met my Mother and then as time went along i came abouts, he was old when he had me, what i meen is everything i talk about on here is through my Mother and as i have told you in this thread we talk on that line, as the line talk goes is broken to, but all these writers of today and the past have it wrong, we was strong with it, i will be the last though, not to worry it as to end somewhere, so you see i will never be one of them who claim they are Indian, sure there not evan a spoonful themselves, but that's just the way the world leads them now like lost sheep, anyway, my d.n.a says i have long cousins from America who are from my Fathers people, but the strangest thing records are coming back from America saying i have Cousins from my Mothers side, and them named Boswell and Young, where did they come from, there are more to but people born and bred Boswell and young from immigrants from these lands back several generations share d.n.a with me, must be a common ancester of sorts, i seen there family lines and its Palmer's Stanley's Scamp and Lee Jefferey's and Wharton, evan a direct Lee to, shares old d.n.a with me, and the strangest thing to some from the south of England come up connected, i must share ancestors way back, i want to do a test that justs shows a persons Mothers ancestry, my head is spinny from all the Irish connections of my dad, click click click, that's all you do when you are looking through all the names, i must be related to half of Ireland, no wonder i like a drink, but i have to separate them for it does your head in for sure click click click, ho and one of the Boswells from the U.S.A as a Noah in her family but buried over there, you said you spoke to a Noah or someone connected to him, it must be a Boswell name, and a real old connection or weak connection or a bit of a bit shared bit is a Boswell American connected to Alma, i think that's the Blackpool ones, somehow somewhere there are common ancestors from the older times, it could be the Smiths, i have lots more connections i found to, the ones from down the South like Beaney Scamp Lee and such i just do not understand, i wonder if they got my sample mixed up, for how can anyone my Mother was connected to be connected to the South, one of the Boswell gals from America said on her profile that shes of the Edward line, i think he was from the Devon way but i am not sure now, i wonder how all those people get on who have the big Gipsy ancestry from both sides, i,v only a bit they must have thousands of clicking todo, ho and the Allens share the same d.n.a or a bit anyway, and i learned that cousins will be related but lots of times the d.n.a only shows up with one, its a strange thing that d.n.a, some people use it to show off and say there Indian and then more or less call others for not being like them, now d.n.a shows the real connections is not India but between the family's of how Gipsies are all related by common ancestors, sure the big ones only have a spoon full of Indian d.n.a anyway and truthfully its only your last several generations that makes you who you are, one of them wrote to me once and told me how great they was for they had the Indian spoonfull and i had not so i was a gorja bastard, that's the mail i have still got, but like my Mother always told me, she said when they call you a bastard tell them yes and a born and bred one to, for i was born a bastard you see, born and bred, they did in the end get married when i was a few years old, so there you go, tell me Sky about a test that just does my Mothers line, well i hope you are well and i think you have done really well with your fine researching, thank you for all the times i have learned from your times of researching out far information that i know you have payed out lots of money for

michael

Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« Reply #188 on: Thursday 02 July 20 13:16 BST (UK) »
Hope all is well, now lockdown is starting to be lifted...

DNA is a good tool in aiding research, I have seen a lot of arguments and snobbery in some groups though. I do not pay it much thought, I have no Indian dna, it does not bother me.

The Wilsher’s have travelled counties of the UK for at least 250 years, mixing with all manner of groups of people.

Your news report research has helped me a great deal, some of them have really brought my tree to life.

Where did you do your dna?
If your on ancestry, my other of adding you to my private family tree still stands, I would think you’d find the Tree interesting.

Cheers,