Merchant Seaman Register

[Loobs]

This is a great help and I will order up a death certificate. Hopefully this will give some details on his wife who is Scottish - Mary Lyon. I can find no marriage cert for them

They weren't married when their daughter Eliza Jane Lyon was born in 1847. At that time Mary lived at 4 1/2 Princes Street, Gravesend. David is not on the birth certificate although Eliza later took his name. He is mentioned in Eliza's marriage (1866) & death certificate (1912).

The 1851 census for E&W has  David as married but Mary wasn't mentioned. Nor was she with her family in Cullen, Scotland. Eliza was in Scotland in 1851 census > with her grandparents.

If anyone can find anything about Mary Lyon in/ around Gravesend I would be awfully grateful. Mary was still alive in 1866 when Eliza married.... perhaps she had remarried?

[Girl Guide]

I checked the David Pankhurst from the 1851 census and there is no birth record for him.  There is however one for David Constant:-

CONSTANT, DAVID       -     
GRO Reference: 1840  D Quarter in GRAVESEND AND MILTON  Volume 05  Page 179

No mother's maiden name appears which means he was illegitimate.  I did find a baptism for him:-

Baptised on 23 December 1840 at Gravesend, Kent.  Mother's name is Ann Constant.

On the 1841 census he is listed with Amos and Ann and there is a daughter also called Ann.  I suspect that she is his mother.    Registration District Gravesend & Milton

Piece number   458
Book number   10
Folio number   16
Page number   25

With regard to Mary Lyon - I wonder if she was a married woman when she met David Constant Snr.  There are five Scotland marriages of a male Lyon marrying a Mary on Find My Past. The most interesting one is that of William Lyon marrying a Mary Lyon on 30 March 1834 at Lanark.

If Mary was already married then that would explain why you can't find a marriage between her and David Constant.  Mary presumably moved to England at some point.

Do you know where in Scotland Mary was born?  If so that may help you to find a marriage for her to a Lyon.  There are quite a lot of Lyon marriages to a Mary on the Family Search website.

The above is speculative and without any really concrete evidence you may not be able to clarify where Mary came from.

Was anyone mentioned on David's death certificate other than the registrar?
 

[Loobs]

Hi
I really appreciate all this help.... I have real difficulty with the records & geography in England

My starting point is Eliza Jane Lyon born to Mary Lyon in 1847 in Gravesend.  She was my grandma's grandma. When Eliza married in 1866 & died in 1912  her father was listed as David Constant.

I agree with the suggestions that David Pankhurst was the nephew of David Constant. His sister Ann had a child. Perhaps the grandmother was looking after him?! That seems to tie in.

In the 1851 census Eliza Jane Constant was living with her Lyon grandparents in Cullen, Banffshire.  This suggests that Mary and David had married by then. I can't find any birth cert for Mary Lyon to the name of the grandparents ( they did have other children)

David's death cert makes no mention of a wife. His mother registered it

[Girl Guide]

Did you look to see where Mary Lyon was in 1851?  I have found what looks like her at Shore Street, Fraserburgh, Buchan, Aberdeenshire.

Interestingly she is listed as Mary Lyon, married and under her name is what I reckon is her sister Isabella Lyon who is unmarried.

Mary's birth year is given as 1826 born Cullen, Banffshire.  The head of the household is Alexander Oliphant (born 1830) a grocer and spirit retailer.

Rather annoyingly Mary is not with the family in the 1841 census although Isabella is.

I think you may find that for whatever reason, Mary and David never actually married.

[Loobs]

This one really is a mystery!!
1841 census I have Isabel aged 10 so it could well be that 10 years later she was with Mary in Fraserburgh and both working in a shop.
There is no sign anywhere of a birth cert for Mary
It could well be there was no marriage & that Eliza Jane was given the surname Constant for decency!!
You have been a great help. Thank you

[Loobs]

 I have revisited National Records of Scotland

Alexander Lyon & Helen Wilson had a daughter Helen on 16 Jan 1822. The witnesses at the baptism were Helen Grant & Mary Reid
Could it be that the child was Christened Mary but called Helen to avoid confusion between mother and child? And after the 2 witnesses I.e Mary Helen?

It may be that Helen married but I can't find that or a death cert in either Christian name

I'm clutching at straws

[Girl Guide]

I think you may well be clutching at straws here.  I doubt that Helen and Mary are the same person.
I found Mary in the 1851 with a birth year of 1826, that's four years after Helen.

The only link you have with Alexander and Helen is based on the fact that Mary's daughter Eliza is with them in the 1851 census. 

Have you found Mary and Eliza together on any census at all or Mary on the 1861 census?

Have you checked the surname interest table at all?  There are three or four people who are researching the surname Lyon in Banff. 

Scroll right down to the bottom of the web page and you will see a heading called Your Tools.  Click on the Surname Interests under that heading and you can then search for yourself and decide if you wish to contact any of the people mentioned. 

I know how frustrating it can be when you get so far and then come to a dead end.  Maybe someone else who is researching the Lyon name can help you get that bit further.

[Loobs]

Hi Girl Guide
I have never found Mary & Eliza together except on her birth certificate in 1847, Gravesend.
Mary is then mentioned on Eliza's marriage & death certificates

Mary is an enigma!!No birth or death cert
I will do as you suggest and search the surname interest
You have been a great help that I you