When you can't quite prove two people are one and the same...

[River Tyne Lass]

Thanks for confirming Martin.  I will check the A-Z resource at the North Shields  local studies at the back end of next week and will let you know if anything may have been deposited which may help with this quest of trying to prove or disprove.

An answer may not be there but I think it is worth a try.   

[Mart 'n' Al]

RTL, along with other members of my extended family I am very grateful for your efforts. I look forward to hearing from you.

I have said that I am totally neutral in this, but my research lead me to find Mr and Mrs Edwin Potter, and Jane Adamson from Tudhoe, and I quite like the idea of being descended from an illegitimate blacksmith's daughter.

Martin

[Mart 'n' Al]

Here's a bizarre coincidence, remembering that MY Jane Adamson, as Jane Leggett was landlady of a pub in Hartlepool in 1899.

There was also a Jane Adamson, born 1860 in West Rainton, 5 miles outside Durham City.

In 1878 there was a Jane Adamson, the landlady of a pub, the Bull and Dog Inn, West Rainton.  Whether it was the 1860 Rainton Jane I can't tell.  Age 18 seems young to run a pub.  My source is an auction in 1878, reported locally, with Jane Adamson as the existing tenant.  Coincidences do happen.

Martin

[Jomot]

I'd already seen that and got excited, but the 1881 census shows this Jane as being aged 60 and born St Oswolds (sic), Durham.

[Malcolm33]

  This whole mystery played on my mind during the night and then something came to me which I think we have all overlooked in searching for Jane in 1881.     This was all mixed up in my half sleep with older thoughts about Harry Potter.    This believe it or not is an Ancient Egyptian name for the ever coming son of God - I'll explain another time as it involves explaining how the hieroglyphs work, Egyptian beliefs and I doubt that J K Rowling even knows what she hit on.

   First of all the names 'Edward' and 'Edwin'.   This too kept coming at me because my grandfather was christened Albert Edwin Hutton and he hated the name 'Edwin' so he always called himself 'Albert Edward Hutton' and signed his name as such.    Attached Signature is on a letter dated 1890.

     Now the 'Engineer' appellation.    Edwin was shown as a 'Civil Engineer' in the 1891 census, not that long after Jane's marriage to Henry Thompson in 1889.   The only two things that bother me are her insistence on being born in Durham City and naming her father as an 'Adamson'.    But did she?

     Isn't it possible that the information given to the registrar was not from Jane herself but perhaps Henry or one of the Witnesses who it seems were his relatives?

      If Jane had come to them as 'Adamson' which is most likely then of course that would have been the surname given.

       There is something else we have tended to forget - the stigma of having been born illegitimate.   

        I think that Jane went into Henry Thompson's household as a servant, and gave her name as Adamson.     To name her adopting father as a Potter would have led to an explanation of her illegitimacy.    So that I think explains away the surname.

        I'm going to do some work now on my hunch, and if right I should be back with my next comment revealing all.

    Cheers Malcolm

[Mart 'n' Al]

Malcolm, bedtime here, but first of all I agree with all of this:

Isn't it possible that the information given to the registrar was not from Jane herself but perhaps Henry or one of the Witnesses who it seems were his relatives?

      If Jane had come to them as 'Adamson' which is most likely then of course that would have been the surname given.

       There is something else we have tended to forget - the stigma of having been born illegitimate.

I want to believe the next bit, but can we support it beyond reasonable doubt?

"I think that Jane went into Henry Thompson's household as a servant, and gave her name as Adamson.  To name her adopting father as a Potter would have led to an explanation of her illegitimacy. So that I think explains away the surname."

It is currently very hot in England, no air conditioning, and the fan on all night.  I am still trying to be neutral, but I like the servant idea.  The jump from Tudhoe/Shildon/Spennymoor area to Shields worries me though.

Perhaps Jane was late Victorian trendy and wanted to shake off her rural roots...?  As I pointed out before, Tudhoe was in St Oswald parish, and the church was in the heart of the city.

Also, despite my middle name being Harry, people assume it is short for Henry.  For 3-4 years at school I was called Harry rather than Martin as my peers thought it was funny.  Now it is highly fashionable, after Harry Potter and Prince Harry (Henry).

The trouble is, I would never commit a man on hypothesis.

Many people take the text on certificates as gospel, but I always have many reservations.  Illiteracy, confusion, myth, family legend, etc.

Martin

[JayG]

Snip

Perhaps Jane was late Victorian trendy and wanted to shake off her rural roots...? As I pointed out before, Tudhoe was in St Oswald parish, and the church was in the heart of the city.

Snip

Martin Tudhoe wasn't in St Oswald's parish, it was in St Brandon, Brancepeth parish.  St Oswald was the registration sub district recorded on births and deaths that occurred in Tudhoe and registered in the Durham district.

Jay

[Malcolm33]

Perhaps Jane was late Victorian trendy and wanted to shake off her rural roots...?  As I pointed out before, Tudhoe was in St Oswald parish, and the church was in the heart of the city.

Martin

     I just can't buy that one, Martin as much as it would help solve the mystery.   Tudhoe is 8 kilometres as the crow flies from the centre of Durham City.    We can forget the extent of Parish boundaries for at one time they even went beyond a country boundary.     My 6 x gt. grandfather James Turnbull confused us in various census - sometimes born Northumberland and sometimes born in Scotland.    That was all to do with the Parish of Simonburn which is well into Northumberland, which at one time covered part of Roxburghshire in Scotland.

     Spennymoor Parish church is no distance from Tudhoe and it was consecrated in 1858 so that would have been where Jane would have been baptised - not all the way to Durham.   Also there were many more churches much nearer such as Ferryhill, Cornforth, Whitworth and Croxdale.

       My birthplace Consett isn't that much farther from 'Toon', but I would never say that I came from Newcastle.    Nevertheless Jane might have said Durham at some stage and then felt that she had to keep to it, rather than go into a long explanation.

[Malcolm33]

Also, despite my middle name being Harry, people assume it is short for Henry.  For 3-4 years at school I was called Harry rather than Martin as my peers thought it was funny.  Now it is highly fashionable, after Harry Potter and Prince Harry (Henry).

The trouble is, I would never commit a man on hypothesis.

Many people take the text on certificates as gospel, but I always have many reservations.  Illiteracy, confusion, myth, family legend, etc.

Martin

      In the case of the name, 'HARRY', it is gospel, and very much so.

      Most people only know mistranslations and also Hellenised names from the original rather than the true names.    I have found through my studies of Egyptian, Greek and other languages - which include Welsh, Gaelic and Turkish, that quite a number of mistranslations were deliberate and only done on purpose to hide the truth which in these cases destroy some biblical stories.   The Egyptian 14th Dynasty King Jacob is a good example.    The deceivers have tried to use unspoken ideograms as an excuse but in doing so they make a total mess of the name they come up with.   There were five 18th Dynasty Kings of Egypt named 'DHWT' (abbreviated to TWT in the case of the last which has become 'Tut' instead of 'David'.)    How on earth can you get Tuthmoses from a name which was clearly spelled  'DHWT'?    It is all to do with the cover up.

       But let's get back to HARRY.    You will know this Egyptian god name better by the Greek version - 'HORUS'.     There were often two or three alternatives in presenting this and other names.   One way was to spell it out and the other was to use a shortcut hieroglyph which would be understood by the reader.   The name of the Son of God in Egypt was simply HR.   They didn't always use a glyph for a vowel and never one for the vowel 'E'.   Consequently the convention when no vowel is known is to insert an 'E' - but they don't always do it.    The shortcut glyph for HR was a Falcon and this is what we see in the Jean Cocteau Mural in the church of Notre Dame in Leicester Square, London.   Obviously Cocteau knew that the portrayal in his mural was false and he painted in a Falcon on a Roman Soldier's shield in such a way that it sits on his own shoulder.

       My Egyptian grammar tells me that the suffix 'Y' really meant "He or She Who Is".    In fact that is how we use it in English with 'Harry', 'Billy', 'Tommy', 'Jenny' etc. etc.     It is also curious that there are other cases of such similarities between English and Ancient Egyptian - e.g. the suffix letter 'T' which can mean 'Land of', or be a feminine indicator like our 'ette'.

      This is not surprising since 18th Dynasty Egyptians invaded and conquered Ireland in the Bronze Age and we can see this in Irish Legends which name Egyptian Kings, Brian, HR, (Horus), Cain and Abel - 14th/15th Dynasty kings of Egypt.

      So the Egyptian son of God was primarily named HRY - Harry, but they often had other spiritual names and The Ever Coming Son of God in Egypt who was always seen as the Living King of Egypt, was also known as IOSA.   This is actually spelled exactly the same in Scots Gaelic for 'Jesus'.   The Greeks changed 'Iosa' into 'Iesous', and when those stories were plagiarised by Egyptian Copts to please Constantine who wanted to invent a new religion in 325CE that was the Egyptian name they used.

      Now despite popular opinion that Egyptians worshipped many gods, THEY DIDN'T!!    They just saw the one god as having many different characters.   So as a Creator they saw God as a Potter who moulded clay into living beings and the name they gave God as a Creator was PTAH.   - You can easily check this on the net.     Hence HARRY POTTER = HRY PTAH, aka known as 'Jesus'.

      Forget the 'name' 'KHRST'.    This was an Egyptian word meaning 'Buried' or 'Burial' and you can find it on coffins - on the net, e.g. Nakht Ankh with this translation.   The mummy went through 70 days mummification rituals in which it was anointed with embalming fluids by a Baptist - Anep or Anubis.   In time the meaning began to be thought of as 'Anointed' rather than 'Buried'.    If you can read Greek then you can read the Greek version of Isaiah 45:1 in which Cyrus is named the 'Christ'.     Also in the Greek version of the OT - the Septuagint you will find the name Iesous - in fact a whole book of Iesous/Jesus as well as in Numbers, Exodus and Deuteronomy.

      The key to learning Bible Origins in Egypt is the identity of the Egyptian King Solomon - simply tons and tons of proof - not just evidence.

       A whole new world opens up when you can read Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphs,    Malcolm