Looking for Isaac ARGYLE

[tasmania]

  :)Trying to find birthor marriage detail or leads on my 3 times greatgrandfather Isaac  Argyle.---bn abt 1800 in Middlesex.     Known daughter Harriet married John Chilman on 22 Sept 1844 in Middlesex.

On marriage certificate Isaac Argyle was shown to have occupation of Excise Officer.

Any leads or hints would be appreciated

[Rick]

Have you managed to find Isaac on any census?  This might help to narrow the search area in Middlesex.  Where in Middlesex did Harriet marry John CHILMAN?

Rick

[tasmania]

Rick,

Thanks for the quick reply.

At this stage I have not been able to locate Isaac anywhere,.

I did see a reference on one query I made to Pallots marriage index but dont know how to access it from this end (Australia)

John Chilman and Harriet Argyle were married on

-------22nd September 1844

IN---The Parish Church in the Parish of West Hackney in the county of Middlesex

Their given residence at time of marriage was Sanford Lane

They were both shown as "full age"

John was a shoemaker as was his father----also John

I hope these details will be of some help;
once again thankyou for the reply

[Rick]

I'm afraid that I am also struggling to find anything on Isaac!!!

I note from an entry on the World Connect site, that Harriet and John had a daughter Hannah CHILMAN born in 1847.

http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/

Database; http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=wjans

This is curious, because although I cannot seem to find either Harriet and John on the 61 census as a couple (though there is a John who would fit with a different wife), I did find a Hannah of the right age, living with her grandfather Isaac SMITH, who was a retired Inland Revenue worker.  Very curious!

RG9/297 Folio 132a
10 Cleveland Gr
Stepney
SMITH Isaac, Head, Married, 64, Superannuated Inland Revenue, b Matlock, Derbyshire
SMITH Hannah, Wife, 60, b Ripley, Derbyshire
CHILMAN Hannah, Grandaughter, 13, Scholar, b Homerton, Middlesex

This is quite a co-incidence don't you think?  Why is it that you think that Isaac ARGYLE was born in Middlesex around 1800?  Is it because this is what the World Connect contributor has posted perhaps?

Rick

[tasmania]

 

Once again Rick----thanks for the prompt reply.

Poor old Isaac  seems to be very elusive-----the Worldconnect site you have listed actually belongs to my 1st cousin Wendy who lives in New South Wales.If you ckeck it out all the detail is very comprehensive--except for Isaac.

The only other place I can think of for information are The National Archive Records for Customs and Excise personnel----- but once again any hints on how to access from "downunder"?

One other query I have is for Abraham Newton (Essex)

bn est 1781 Halstead
m 31 Aug 1801 in Halstead
D before 1861

Married to Hannah Goody
bn est Apr 1781
D abt 28 May 1863

Abraham was a sweep.

In the 1851 Halstead census Abraham was listed as an Army Pensioner HO107/1784Folio 160 1851 Halstead Census

The big question is ??  where do I look to ascertain his Regiment/Unit and any military details-----Presumably he was probably an Chelsea "out" pensioner?

His war service---as he was a pensioner presumably was in the Napoleonic Wars (1805-1815?).

You will have to blame these queries on my cousin Wendy as it was she who infected me with the "Genealogy Bug" when we first made contact about four years ago----now I am an addict!!!!

Cheers for now---Have a good day

[Rick]

I think that you really need to ask yourself the following questions.

1.  What evidence is there for the birthdate of 1800 for Isaac?

2.  What evidence is there for the birthplace of Middlesex for Isaac?

3.  Is the Hannah CHILMAN living with the SMITHS in 1861 your Hannah, and if so, who are the SMITHS, and why are they described as Hannah's grandparents on the census?

4. Where and when was Harriet ARYGYLE born?  I note from your cousins database, that there are no details whatever about this.  She is described as being born circa 1823, but where is the evidence for this?  She is of "full age" when she married John CHILMAN, but that only means that she is 21 or over.

It might help to find Harriet in 1841.  The 41 will not give her birthplace, but it will give her age (though this could well be rounded down) and it will confirm whether or not Harriet was born in Middlesex.  There might also be the added bonus that she will still be living at home with her parents.

There is a partial index for the metropolitan area of Middlesex at "The Genealogist - pay to view.

http://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/

As for you query regarding Abraham NEWTON, the National Archives has an online searchable database.

http://www.a2a.org.uk/

I would also consider searching the Essex Archives.

http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/%5CLogin.asp?Start=False&ERO=2

Rick

[tasmania]

Rick,

Thanks for the suggestions, I will follow through on your advice and see what happens 
Who knows---our ancestral base may not be what it seems--the old trap of things being taken for granted----

Cheers--have a good day

[michaels]

Am entering this correspondence to establish contact (having also tried one or two other message boards....so sorry for any duplication).

Isaac was my gt gt gt gt grandfather. I know Harriet Louisa Argyle & John Chilman were married in 1844 and that Hannah Louisa Argyle Chilman was born in January 1847.
I don't know what happened to the marriage or if/when John died, but by 1856 Harriet was in Adelaide and remarried, and Hannah was with a grandmother in England: I note the possibility of a Derbyshire grandmother but I had believed she was brought up in London.

Hannah arrived in Sydney with three children in 1882/3: one died on arrival. Another child, John, follwed her to Sydney in c1910/11 taking a job in Grace Brothers store. One son and one daughter remained in England with their father: the son is my gt gt grandfather.

Isaac is difficult to research....and I think you are already trying the Scottish options? The family tradition here is that there is a scottish connection....much might depend on the accuracy of the possible connection 'Rick' has uncovered with Derbyshire.

Would be very interested in being in touch as would Beckwith uncles and cousins!

Michael

[WendyJ]

Sounds like you have located the right family - as I am the g'dau of John who came to Austalia in 1911, and 'Tasmania' is a g'son -  and my cousin.   Joseph (your ancestor?) and Annie remained in England, and other facts line up. 
I have tracked Josephs descendants down a few generations, so would also be most interested in getting in touch.    [Check out Isaac Argyle b.1800 Middlesex on 'worldconnect' site on rootsweb].
The Isaac and Hannah Smith in 1861 census - must be our Isaac Argyle - as the g'dau. Hannah Chilman is ours(thanks to Rick), and 'Tasmania' found in them in the 1881 census living in next household to our William and Hannah Beckwith, at 48 Elsley Rd Battersea with our John and Joseph.  I think somehow the 'Smith' name was 'dropped'.