James William And Arabella Florence – Early NZ settlers

[Tracey NZ]

Thanks Spades.

[Jools]

Nothing on Papers Past... (apart from his death notices) as I've scoured that myself in search of information on James.

Ours will be one of the private family trees on ancestry.com.  My husband is a WILLIAMS. 

We were up at Whangaroa Harbour ten days' ago, and were speaking to someone there who told us of a book available in Kaeo, about early Whangaroa. Given Arabella was born there (along with siblings) it might be worth tracking down the book... unfortunately it was the end of the day when we were there and although we were told it was available at the library, we couldn't find the library, but there is a small museum, which was closed.   

The FLORANCE spelling dominates, and is the only one I use in our records.  I think only registrars and indexers use the other spelling! LOL!

[minniehaha]

Might be worth making enquiries here......

AUCKLAND LIBRARY-HERITAGE COLLECTIONS

https://www.aucklandlibraries.govt.nz/Pages/heritage-collections.aspx
We house a wide range of heritage items and history resources such as original manuscripts, rare books, maps and heritage collections.
‎Photographs · ‎Manuscripts · ‎Rare books
Auckland Libraries: Photographs
https://www.aucklandlibraries.govt.nz/Pages/heritage-photographs.aspx
We have a large collection of heritage photographs from the 1800s to the present day.
Auckland Libraries: Heritage collections
https://www.aucklandlibraries.govt.nz/Pages/guide-heritage-collections.aspx
Browse through our heritage collections, from rare books to maps and photographs. ... Visit Sir George Grey Special Collections on level 2 of the Central City ...
Sir George Grey Special Collections
www.georgegrey.org.nz/
In 1887, Sir George Grey gave Auckland citizens a range of precious heritage ... Tā Hori Kerei - Ngā kohinga taonga whakahirahira at Auckland Libraries.
Auckland Library Heritage Trust - Grey Collection: The Gift
www.georgegrey.org.nz/History/AucklandLibraryHeritageTrust.aspx
The Auckland Library Heritage Trust was formed in 1991 as a charitable trust. ... Sir George Grey Special Collections for the benefit of the people of Auckland.


Minniehaha.

[Jools]

given the time-frame, Auckland Museum's library is even more likely. 

[Tracey NZ]

Thanks Jools, I will keep a look out for the book.
I am a bit slack as I resort to writing Florance with an 'e' sometimes. The birth records for Jane Florance - James William's first wife and a direct ancestor - and her parents/siblings were all transcribed with an 'e'; no doubt should have been an 'a.'
I think, along with other researchers, that I have found all I can about James - discounting the non-referenced info. such as his supposed birthdate and 'parents' - no record has surfaced to date to verify these and therefore are purely a guess unless proved otherwise. No names were entered on his death certificate so not even his children appeared to know much about his background, apart from 'tall' stories he might have told. No engraving has surfaced either if there is still one to be had. At least we have a first-hand description of James from Wakefield's journal when he arrived in NZ. A 'big' character all round by the sounds of it!

[Jools]

I agree... that there is a birth date floating around for James is interesting but non-conclusive.  No baptisms in London (available to date) match, and there's not a single time I've seen Payne as a middle name, except for Mercy Ellen... and even then the variations are inconsistent...  there are some interesting surnames used as middle names in Arabella's children... but they're not proving useful either.

The family tree that purports the date of birth and middle name for James has a large number of errors for the names and dates of their children...

One train of thought I've had... there are a family of WILLIAMS on the Bolton.  Jane & James marry less than three months after her arrival on said ship.  Is there a specific reason he was in Hutt/Wellington and met her so soon after her arrival?

Things I'm still struggling to answer... where is he buried?  Auckland Church of England Cemetery should be Symonds Street, or Waikumete, but I can't find a record in either. 

Who is the third child born at the time Jane died? 

And in case you haven't found them... I found John and Jane Biggins FLORANCE's deaths and burials yesterday!!! (I've only just come back to working on this family in the past few days, since I first started on my hubby's family tree four years' ago!)

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[Pheno]

Presumably you have checked London baptisms for James Payne as he may have been illegitimate and attached the Williams surname if his mother subsequently married a Mr. Williams.

Can't do any searching as there is no time frame mentioned anywhere in this thread.

Pheno

[Jools]

I should have thought of doing that, but I'm not certain I have!

I shall address that anomaly now.   

But at least today, going over records I've done before I found him happily resting in peace in the Symonds Street Cemetery... in perpetuity, (not moved for the motorway) along with his first wife (although it's not clear they're buried anywhere near each other!)

[Jools]

LOL!  Well the birth date I've seen for James Payne WILLIAMS on family trees matches this:
Name   James John Payne
Gender   Male
Christening Date   04 Sep 1809
Christening Place   ST SEPULCHRE,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date   05 Nov 1808
Father's Name   James Payne
Mother's Name   Hannah

~ however, how does everyone (innumerable family trees) have a birthdate, and *only* London?  Is there a family bible it could be matched to?  Wanders off for the next instalment... Hannah's maiden name (BOWDEN??) burial of James snr... and a remarriage.