Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[battista]

Battista, regarding, John George's photo (dated 1910)  in the criminal photos book at Tyne and Wear Archives - I have looked up the story behind this on microfilm.  To keep this brief John had taken some rope which did not belong to him and had asked a boy of 15 to help him carry it.  The boy was called Jacob Miller.

This may be an ancestor in my family tree as my Great Grandfather Simon Peter Conroy had a niece called Elizabeth Miller nee Watson.  Her son was Jacob Miller and he would have been around 15 at that time.  The family lived at Clifford's fort and in the middle of North Shields.

Your ancestor was convicted hence the photo which exists.  Jacob was discharged - so hence no photo for him.  Strange to think our ancestors may have possibly known each other.

Also, just to add I forgot to add the date of the marriage for James Battista & Dorothy Playford on an earlier post - it was 11 April 1922. (Post 110)

Thank you so much RTL!

I've just flown home in the last hour, so am very tired at the moment, will have to get to responding to all of this info in this thread soon!

I've received 7 certificates from GRO of the Battista family, some of them may hold some information useful to this brickwall. If not, there are other parts of the family they will shed light on.

Will get to scanning those and sharing them here over the next few days.

[River Tyne Lass]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/illustratedchronicleww1/21265796373/in/photolist-ryjczR-y8GhsC-yGn7oE-qKVr5b-yaZCS8-rydyVf-zaiK9V-zmZ4Mc-ypbLnB-BpWRZH

Another possible nugget of information for your records.  Although, this would need to be looked into further -  I wonder if the photo of Frank Spence from North Shields described as wounded and a prisoner in 1916 might be Orselina's first husband?  The originals of the Illustrated Chronicle are kept at Newcastle library.

[battista]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/illustratedchronicleww1/21265796373/in/photolist-ryjczR-y8GhsC-yGn7oE-qKVr5b-yaZCS8-rydyVf-zaiK9V-zmZ4Mc-ypbLnB-BpWRZH

Another possible nugget of information for your records.  Although, this would need to be looked into further -  I wonder if the photo of Frank Spence from North Shields described as wounded and a prisoner in 1916 might be Orselina's first husband?  The originals of the Illustrated Chronicle are kept at Newcastle library.

I suspect Frank died somewhere around 1918, Orselina remarried in 1918. I think this is probably him, but without any further info, I guess it'll be hard to verify. Thank you for the photo, whether it is him or not, at least I've got a photo

Received Anastasia's 1934 death certificate today. https://i.imgur.com/x5hmcDR.png

Listed as "widow of Giovanni Battista". J. Slavin (son in law) is the informant, that's the second record type to suggest that Anastasia was living with her daughter and son in law, and continued to live with her son in law after her daughter's death. Confusing, as both the daughter and mother have the same name.

First electoral record of Anastasia is in 1903, she's not living with Giovanni. It seems likely that Giovanni died between 1902-1903.

But where???

[River Tyne Lass]

Yes, this is such a mystery.  I think Giovanni must have died in that period too.  However, he was not the subject of an inquest and he does not appear to be registered or buried here.  Very puzzling.

I think I could look over the newspapers whenever I get time and see if he might be mentioned somewhere.  I could also check Shields newspaper to see if it can be proved that this is Orselina's Frank.  I think I will have to look at microfilms as I am not sure but I don't think all issues are on-line.  This could be a long job as I will have to fit this in here and there with work and other commitments.  However, I  really hope you do get this brick wall solved.  I will definitely help you in anyway I can with the local resources I have available to me.  How did Giovanni manage to seemingly disappear into thin air.  Mind boggling!

[River Tyne Lass]

In the memoriam (5 November 1924 Shields Daily News) for John George, I have noticed Orselina/Lily mentions nephew Willis.  On freebmd I can't see a Willis Guthrie but there is a Willis Spence birth registered in Dewsbury in 1907. I wonder if there may have been some family link with Dewsbury or whether this baby is unconnected to Battistas.

See post 114 for memoriam

[River Tyne Lass]

Also, in the subject of photos Battista .. have you had a chance to look at the Tynemouth WW1 database link? (post 132). When you get to page for John George click on related documents and then on 'View' for the Shields Daily News.  You will then be able to view the picture of John George which was published by that newspaper.  (Not the best in quality admittedly - but the archives do hold two very good quality photos of him.)

[JenB]

In the memoriam (5 November 1924 Shields Daily News) for John George, I have noticed Orselina/Lily mentions nephew Willis.  On freebmd I can't see a Willis Guthrie but there is a Willis Spence birth registered in Dewsbury in 1907. I wonder if there may have been some family link with Dewsbury or whether this baby is unconnected to Battistas.

Willis Spence born Dewsbury, mother’s maiden surname was Mitchell (GRO website)

[River Tyne Lass]

Oh well, no link there then.  Thanks Jen for finding out that this is a dead end avenue and doesn't need to be explored further.

[Jomot]

I'm beginning to wonder whether Giovanni is one of the 'unknown male' deaths, possibly in the Newcastle area where he is said to have gone on one of the earlier workhouse records (Dec 01).

It seems that Anastacia had made the move from Tynemouth to Newcastle some time between the birth of their son Henry Leo in Sep qtr 1901 (Tynemouth) and his death in Sep qtr 1902 (Newcastle).

Perhaps one or other of these certificates may reveal something new?