"Bastard Laws" and courts in the U.K.

[Ruskie]

I've just read the earlier thread on this man, is it possible to link the 2 threads together?

Reading the other thread it appears that Robert arrived as Robert Smith if I've understood everything correctly.

Here is a link to the other thread which contains quite a lot of information:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=710802.0

Skimming through it, I have some doubts about his claim of being related to CLB.

I would still go the DNA route if at all possible ...

[stanmapstone]

what town ..stan ?

London

Stan

[RevHead]

Thanks everyone for your input into this:

brigidmac - you said “The money paid to a love child was often specified to end when child reached a certain age” - could this be an example of a “Remittance Man” i.e. RHS was paid by the Butler family to stay away?

You also asked: “what was Robert Smiths mother's name + profession, and where did she give birth ?  a high status hospital or a private house ..?” - I don’t have any details other than the names of Mary or possibly Anne.

I don’t have any birth records of Robert Hastings Smith. The earliest record (I think) I have of him is his arrival in Australia in 1863 (aged 19) on board the “Nemmo”

He’s back on board the SS “John Elder” that leaves Sydney on 8th June 1883 to London, and arrives back into Sydney on 29/9/1883 (3.5 months later) on the SS “Luisiana”. There’s a court case later that year where he’s charged with attempted murder of his wife’s boyfriend.


Ruskie - yes RHS dies in Australia at Macquarie Street Asylum in Parramatta (New South Wales) on 23/8/1901

Your advice on getting a DNA comparison with a living relative of Charles Butler is probably going to be the best bet. My wife and I did the ancestry.com DNA test about a month ago snd we’re currently waiting for the response. So do I see if there’s any living descendants of Charles Lennox Butler on ancestry.com and try to contact them? I’m sure I’ll work it out once the results come back from ancestry.com

Thanks again for everyone’s input.

[mcfrankel]

Just to add to the information on Robert, he went to New Zealand before he came to Australia.  He cause some problems in New Zealand and then came to Australia.  I have not been able to track down his shipping records to New Zealand and then to Australia.  Robert Smith is a popular name.  As Revhead stated Robert had been in receipt of money, which was sent through a solicitors by the name of Meads. Would it be possible to obtain old solicitors records in England? 

[RevHead]

I've had my wife's (the gg grand-daughter of Robert Hastings Smith) DNA results uploaded to ancestry.com

As I'm relatively new to this - what is the best way to establish a DNA link with a descendant of Charles Butler (the person Robert Hastings Smith claimed was his father)?

Thanks for everyone's help so far.
 

[jorose]

If there's no current matches, you'd have to hope a relative would be willing to take a DNA test.  The ideal would be for a male line descendant on both sides for y-DNA.  If the relationship in terms of cousins is too far apart, you might not be able to get a good match even if they are related:
https://genealogy.stackexchange.com/q/12848/731

I don't think there was ever any requirements for solicitors documents of this nature to be stored or handed over to record offices. Sometimes record offices do acquire older records but it's not consistent and you'd have to know where this particular "Meads Solicitors" were based in England to figure out if anything survives.

To be honest, looking at the way the payments are described in reports of his bankruptcy in NZ, I would be very surprised if there was anything official in terms of court records or any sort of contract. It does sound more like he had some sort of allowance, it even says it could be stopped at any time, and that sort of thing could easily be arranged by instructing someone who worked for the person sending to send the appropriate money order on a regular basis, no solicitor required.

See: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DSC18640924.2.18 "a gentleman in England"

[RevHead]

Thanks jorose - very helpful, although I think it's going to be quite difficult to trackdown a male line descendant from both sides for DNA tests - especially from the the "nobility side" that Robert Hastings Smith claimed as his family. I may have hit a (temporary?) block with this part of my research.

Anyway - DNA testing is improving/changing all the time isn't it? Perhaps there might be something that could be shown down the track.

Thanks for the link to the NZ publication.

[Ruskie]

Yes, the best test would be a YDNA test of a direct male descendant of Charles Butler and one of Robert Hastings Smith (and hope that each man's father actually was his father). 

That would probably definitely perhaps give you the answers you want.

However ... approaching a relative of Charles Butler, if you can find one, might need to be tackled carefully as they may know nothing of Charles, and if they do they may not believe he fathered an illegitimate child (some people look at their ancestors through rose coloured glasses). You may need to offer to pay for their test if they are reluctant to take one. Prepare yourself for them to refuse, but perhaps another descendant would be willing to help you. 

Good luck and please let us know how you get on.

[dobfarm]

deleted-

Sorry! I put post on wrong thread.