Author Topic: Lookup for: Thomas McCallum/McCollum Down b.1835 +/-  (Read 959 times)

Offline rgouette

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Lookup for: Thomas McCallum/McCollum Down b.1835 +/-
« on: Friday 13 April 18 19:03 BST (UK) »
Seeking birth data/paternal line data for: Thomas McCallum/McCollum
Listed on his daughters birth cert as born in County Down.
Daughter is: Margaret Jane McCollum b.Dec 9 , 1874 County Down
Thomas was married to Agnes McNabeny/Menaberry, and  they were marrried in Kilkeel(Kilcool) , in 1862
(she appears to be his 2nd wife)

A researcher produced extracts from rootsireland, that showed Thomas fathers name as: Duncan
Thomas marriage to Agnes:
Church Marriage Record
Date of Marriage: 07-Sep-1874
Parish / District: NEWRY & MOURNE County: Co. Down
Husband Wife
Name: Thomas Mccallam Agnes Menabeny
Address: Ballynagappoge Ballynagappoge
Denomination: Presbyterian Presbyterian
Occupation: WEAVER
Age: Full Age (Over 21) Full Age (Over 21)
Status: Widower (Male) Spinster (Previously unmarried)
Husband's Father Wife's Father
Name: Duncan Mccallam William Menabeny
Address:
Denomination:
Occupation: FARMER LABOURER
Husband's Mother Wife's Mother
Name:
Address:
Denomination:
Occupation:
Witness 1 Witness 2
Name: Robert Connellan Martha Lister
Address:
Notes:
Church: CLONDUFF Presbyterian


Daughter Margaret's birth info:
Church Baptism Record
Name: Margaret Jane Mccallum Date of Birth: 09-Dec-1874
Date of Baptism: 14-Feb-1875
Address: Parish/District: CLONDUFF PRESBYTERIAN
Gender: Female County Co. Down
Denomination:
Father: Thomas Mccallum Mother: Agnes Mcnabney
Occupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:
Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:
Notes:
Minister/Priest: STEEN JAMES.


I'm curious about this record, which so far, is the only record of a Thomas McCallum or McCollum that would fit the correct timelines according to the death paper, and census of 1901, which shows Thomas married to Mary Jane, which incidentally matches THIS record:

Church Marriage Record
Date of Marriage: 10-Apr-1884
Parish / District: BANBRIDGE County: Co. Down
Husband Wife
Name: Thomas Mccallum Mary Jane Shilliday
Address: Ballynagappoge Ballycashone
Denomination: Presbyterian Presbyterian
Occupation: FARMER
Age: Full Age (Over 21) Full Age (Over 21)
Status: Widower (Male) Widow (Female)
Husband's Father Wife's Father
Name: Duncan Mccallum William Jennings
Address:
Denomination:
Occupation: FARMER CARPENTER
Husband's Mother Wife's Mother
Name:
Address:
Denomination:
Occupation:
Witness 1 Witness 2
Name: James Jennings Sophia Jennings
Address:
Notes:
Church: DRUMLEE Presbyterian


Attached is the birth of Margaret Jane, which I obtained myself from groireland.ie
Many thanks for any help.

Kind regards,
Rich

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Lookup for: Thomas McCallum/McCollum Down b.1835 +/-
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 14 April 18 22:14 BST (UK) »
Here's the original of the 1884 marriage- you can see the transcription you got isn't accurate (and Irish civil marriage records do not include religion of bride and groom- the database has assumed both Presbyterian because marriage took place in Presbyterian Church)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1884/10898/5980720.pdf
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline rgouette

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Re: Lookup for: Thomas McCallum/McCollum Down b.1835 +/-
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 14 April 18 22:30 BST (UK) »
Ok, so you're suggesting that they might not have been Presbyterians?

All the info appears to match the extract I was given, unless there's something
I'm missing..

Should I consider Duncan is the correct name for Thomas's father?
Also, was it common for non-Presbyterian to marry in a Presbyterian church?
I notice that it sytates the marriage took place 'according to the form and discipline of the Presbyterian church'...which sounds  to me, a lot like they might have been Presbyterians..
But I'm not an expert either..

Rich


Offline aghadowey

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Re: Lookup for: Thomas McCallum/McCollum Down b.1835 +/-
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 14 April 18 22:38 BST (UK) »
What I said was that the marriage certificate does NOT list religion of bride or groom. One or both could have been Presbyterian. Since marriages usually take place in the bride's church it may be that Thomas, whatever his denomination, and his family could have attended a different church.
If you look carefully you will see that the marriage record has not been transcribed accurately. Thomas' surname, and his fathers written as McCallium.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!


Offline rgouette

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Re: Lookup for: Thomas McCallum/McCollum Down b.1835 +/-
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 14 April 18 22:41 BST (UK) »
ahh I see.
thanks for the clarification

that's funny.
Surely, there are no "McCalliums"...
Wish I could find Thoma's birth certificate...


Offline aghadowey

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Re: Lookup for: Thomas McCallum/McCollum Down b.1835 +/-
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 14 April 18 22:49 BST (UK) »
Surely, there are no "McCalliums"...
You have to remember that spelling was a very fluid thing until fairly recently so this just gives you another variation to keep in mind when searching. It also shows that transcriptions can be mis-leading.

Wish I could find Thoma's birth certificate...
Civil registration of births started in 1864 so there will be no birth certificates before that date.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline rgouette

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Re: Lookup for: Thomas McCallum/McCollum Down b.1835 +/-
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 14 April 18 23:33 BST (UK) »
[so this just gives you another variation to keep in mind when searching. It also shows that transcriptions can be mis-leading.

yeah, I think that's possibly the 10th variation on him so far!
;)

Offline rgouette

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Re: Lookup for: Thomas McCallum/McCollum Down b.1835 +/-
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 14 April 18 23:43 BST (UK) »
[so this just gives you another variation to keep in mind when searching. It also shows that transcriptions can be mis-leading.

yeah, I think that's possibly the 10th variation on him so far!
;)

Offline QuickDraw

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Re: Lookup for: Thomas McCallum/McCollum Down b.1835 +/-
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 15 April 18 06:00 BST (UK) »
Wish I could find Thoma's birth certificate...

Thoughts?

https://www.familysearch.org

Name:   Thomas Mc Callum
Gender:   Male
Christening Date:   05 Jul 1835
Christening Place:   PRESBYTERIAN,KILLINCHY,DOWN,IRELAND
Father's Name:   Allan Mc Callum
Indexing Project (Batch) Number:   C70030-1
System Origin:   Ireland-ODM
GS Film number:   0823877 IT 6, 0824373 IT 4