Could DNA testing help discover father of my illegitimate Grandmother?

[Craclyn]

Pleased to hear you are getting some value from it RTL. The more matches that you manage to identify and add into your tree, the easier it will be to figure out which ones are not fitting in. This will help you to narrow down those that connect to your missing great grandfather. By looking for common ancestors in that group you should finally be able to make some progress.

[River Tyne Lass]

Thanks for the reminder Craclynn to keep adding the matches to my tree.  I really do need to keep up with this.  After reading your post I have updated the link I have found with the lady I mentioned in my last post who is a direct descendant of my paternal Great Grandfather's sister.  I am also now starting to put people I can definitely track to known ancestors as 'starred matches'.  What a great feature 'Thrulines' is! 

With searching for my elusive Great Grandfather - the subject of this thread - I really think I might have my work cut out with this one.  My Grandmother was born in 1895 in South Shields.  Her birth Mother registered her a month later.  This Great Grandmother then is found getting married in Salford to someone not my Great Grandfather in 1901.  Why she was in Salford I do not know.  She then went with her new husband to his home area of Harrogate and they had five more children.  I have found a South Shields school record 1907 which records my Grandmother's previous school was 'Harrogate.'

Regarding 'Salford' I have heard from two separate people who say their ancestors are from the Lancashire area and that they do not recognise my names.  Perhaps they might have the missing link.  I do wonder what drew her to Salford - was she just working there perhaps or might there be some connection there with the elusive Great Grandfather?  In 1901 Great Grandmother is in Harrogate and illegitimate Grandmother is in South Shields with Grandparents as their daughter.  In 1911 she is also there with Grandparents but now she is correctly down as their granddaughter.
When she marries unfortunately she gives her Grandfather as her Father on the register.  I have her birth cert and no one is named as Father.

[scotmum]

A good article to keep in mind when using ThruLines:

https://dna-explained.com/2019/03/11/ancestrys-thrulines-dissected-how-to-use-and-not-get-bit-by-the-gators/

[River Tyne Lass]

Thank you for posting this scotmum.  I will read this soon.

[River Tyne Lass]

Might this be something or nothing?

I have been working on a hypothesis idea as nothing has sprung out concerning who my Grandmother's Father may have been.

I have heard that sometimes an illegitimate child might be given the surname of the Father as a middle name.  My Grandmother was given the middle name of 'May' when she was born in 1895 in South Shields - likely a common female name anyway.  (None of her five half siblings born after her were given a middle name.)  However, working on the idea that her Father might have had the surname 'May' I have looked for a possible candidate. 

I found an 'Anthony May' and have put him and his family as a 'hypothesis'.  Anthony was born Newcastle in 1877 and he grew up in the part of Newcastle where my Great Grandmother's (born Newcastle 1878) family lived before moving to South Shields.  Anthony died in 1894 in South Shields.  His family appear to have remained in Newcastle.  However, Grandmother was born close to ten months after his death but might she have been a late birth?

As I say I have put Anthony up on my tree anyway as a hypothesis to try out.  Thrulines has come up with 3 additional generations in the line of his Mother who was Anne May nee Conway.  Now following this line I now have DNA matches  to two other people who have tested with shared fifth Great Grandparents.  So my question is - might this indicate that Anthony (or  possibly even  his older brother Daniel) could be a possible for a Great Grandfather or is this all too vague given that these two matches are with shared fifth Great Grandparents in the suggested line?

I would appreciate hearing any thoughts on this.  Thanks.

[Craclyn]

Sounds like you could be on the right track. Try plotting your matches on that line into the WATO (What are the odds?) tool at DNA Painter to see if they are fitting in with your theory. A new version was released in Beta last week so check that you go to V2.

[Spelk]

Rather than a "late birth" it could be that the mother was a bit late in registering the death and to hide the fact she gave a date of birth a month or so later than it really was.

Looking at the elder brother Daniel DAY it appears that he may have been married in 1893 and then again in 1896. When a man's wife is pregnant he might be inclined to look elsewhere for a bit of sex and so the elder brother, I would say, is equally likely to be the father. Daniel had children by his second wife so a good chance he has living descendants who could be DNA tested if they are willing. 

[River Tyne Lass]

Hi Craclyn,

Thank you for this - I only have a free tree up which I assembled when I was getting my DNA tested.  I don't know anything about DNA painter, Beta or V2 but I am pleased that you think that I might be onto something and therefore that this might be worth further investigation. 

Hi Spelk,

Thank you for your post too.  It hadn't occurred to me that there might have been a possibility that my Grandmother's birth may have been falsely recorded late.  I have a copy of her birth certificate and she is down as having been born at the known family address (her Grandparents household) on 24 April 1895 and her birth was registered on 28 May 1895 by her Mother (who had .. 'no occupation' and I know that her Mother would have just turned seventeen, so in quite a vulnerable position.)

I wonder if this was something that might have happened much - falsifying a date on a birth cert?  Was the penalty heavy for registering late? 

Perhaps this might explain why I have never been able to find a baptism for my Grandmother - because I have used the starting point of checking as after her given birth date?  Everyone else in the family had baptisms and the half siblings which followed had baptisms.  This has puzzled me why Grandmother seems to have had no baptism (I have previously  checked the family Church and all the other local Anglican Churches) and I have wondered if this might have been because of the 'shame' which was probably likely in that judgemental period of time?  However, I would have thought a baptism would have been thought important  and perhaps a quiet ceremony could have been carried out, surely. 

I think now, in light of your suggestion I will check for an earlier baptism than given birth date as soon as the Archives and libraries reopen.  As the May family seem to have been Catholic I suppose I should also check to see if she may have had a Catholic baptism.  Although, I doubt this, as surely my Great Grandmother would have had to convert to being Catholic too and that seems a lot of effort. 

As it seems like this might be worth more investigation I will try to find out more detail about this May/Conway family and put it on my tree.  I could also now put these names on my surnames of interest when I contact people.  If Anthony was the Father, Great Grandmother could not have married him due to his early death and the other brother Daniel May as you say, seems to have been already married.  I wonder if I should switch the hypothesis of a 'Father' to Daniel May to see if this might reveal any more potential matches?

Thank you again Craclynn and spelk, I know there are no guarantees of success with all this, but I think I now have a promising avenue to explore.  Hopefully, I will be able to find out more detail about the May/Conway family once it becomes safe again for the libraries and Archives to reopen.

[Spelk]

Hi RTL,
Back in 12 Dec 2017 you wrote -
On the second search I found my Grandmother's name, her exact date of birth and the name of her Grandfather under the parent or guardian column.  Too many coincidences for this to have been anyone else but my Grandmother.  She was age 12 at this time.  It was also recorded that her previous school had been in a different named area and I know that this area was where her birth mother was living.  One intriguing thing was that the address recorded at the South Shields school was not the address of her maternal grandparents and family.  I did detective work on who lived there at that time and found that a widow and her family were long time residents at the address given.  I did wonder if one of the widow's sons may have been responsible for fathering my Grandmother and that she may have housed her as she was a possible Grandmother - but on checking one son was too young and the other died before Grandmother would have been conceived.  So I suspect Grandmother may have just boarded with the widow and family as a lodger perhaps.

That widow and her family were not called "MAY" I suppose.