Irish Ancestry

[aj]

Hello-

I'm new here  and quite new to all of this! I have read this thread with interest and found it really helpful. I have a few questions and hope someone can help... long post to follow..

1. I know my family are living in Cockermouth Cumbria from 1841 census, they are listed as from Ireland...yawn..it seems like here I have the same problems as many of you describe in the thread!

I have searched surrounding addresses and have found people with the same name and others born in Ireland and some listed as born in Down and Armagh.

Is it a safe assumption that my gang also came from one of these Counties? (I am making that assumption based on advice /experience mentioned in this thread).

2. Re getting to Cockermouth-  I am also assuming that my family went there direcly from Ireland rather than via Liverpool. Do you think this is a reasonable assumption?

I am basing this idea on the back of there seeming to be various  trade and other routes fromBelfast area to Scotland, Whitehaven etc at the time of their arrival- Famine years probably 1837 (daughter born in Cockermouth registered as age 3 on the 1841 census). Also my gang were weavers in Cockermouth- there seem to have been trade links re flax in Ireland? Maybe this was the connection re Cockermouth flax merchants?
Would you be thinking along the same lines?

3. i have no idea re there religion- I am tracing my Dad's ancestors- we, he, and his family seem to have had no religious affiliation. Can I make any assumptions re if they came from Armagh or Down? If so how do I proceed to trace them whilst still in Ireland?

4.There are various census and certificate versions of their name- Row/Roe / Rowe? Can the name help me in any way re Irish ancestry and denomination or area of origin?

5. I had a great time visiting Cockermouth whilst on holiday last year! I had a look at and found out about how horrible the area where they lived was back then, but got nowhere re appropriate records, visiting graveyards etc (twas an all too short visit!). Any advice re specific records I should look for? These could be in Cockermouth,also if I get that far searching in Ireland- I intend to do a holiday later in the year so would really like to know where to proceed next in my search!

6. Finally...! Any ideas in light of above re tracing the earliest of the Row / Roe etc gang- Solomon and Mary both born around 1799? (Ireland!) And can I draw any info re religion from their names?

What can I say other than thanks for reading and for any advice!

Best wishes

Amanda

[pennine]

I too have followed this thread with interest and would just like to advise members of the difficulties I encountered. My English father and Irish mother divorced in the early 1950's. Custody was given to my father. Many years after my father's death I tried to trace my mother. I started with their marriage in 1949 in Yorkshire. According to the certificate she was the same age as he was 21.
I had great difficulty locating her but I did eventually. I found she had remarried in England 7 years later, less than 20 miles away and guess what she was still 21! She was using her first married name as though it was her maiden name and said she was a spinster. She had said her father's name was the what in actual fact my father's father's name! To cut a long story short when she died a few years ago her birth certificate revealled that she had been 28 when she married my father and 35 when she married her second husband who was only 21. Neither my father or he knew her true age. When she died her husband thought she was nearly 60 when infact she was 74 and could have been claimimg pension for 14 years. Had it not been for the fact that my father had an unusual surname and my paternal grandfather an unusual middle name I would never have found her on my own.
 I traced her by writing to the parish priest and got further family information whom I traced to Manchester and they told me where she was living. I made a donation of £5 and got a long list from the Parish register of the whole family even those that were still living. Also they were a bit notorious so the Parish priest was fully acquainted with them
Just to warn you all out there you may have to ask people in Ireland like the Priest and secondly do not believe all you read on the census and certificates. My mother kept up the charade until her death, and it took me 10 years to get the truth.

[Patk]

Dear Amanda

I really cannot help you much about Cockermouth but I personally would base more emphasis on researching there. List all the parish churches which were in use in at the time your ancestor was born in 1837 in Cockermouth. If you can find at least one church that was Romand Catholic, search the baptismal records there, if you can, or find out if anyone else holds the records. The baptismal record gives you the fathers name the mothers maiden name, and the sponsors names, usually two. Often they are relatives or close friends, follow them up on say the 1851 census, and see if they give an area in Ireland, where they may have some from. If you cannot find them in a catholic church, go through the other denominations. Before registration began in 1837 there was a big emphasis on the requirement for the clergy to keep church records, so you might be in luck. Other than that it is very difficult to make a guess regarding the area of Ireland they may have originated from, especially when you have common names or names that can be spelled in multiple ways. I have no idea how big Cockermouth is, but I do know that many Irish did go to Whitehaven, and were weavers, some later went to Manchester to work in the cotton mills.
Your family is similar to my own and I too have reached Ireland! The name Mary, is in my opinion generic, but I would consider Solomon to be reasonably unusual, but it may not make your searches anymore easier, but I do wish you some Irish luck!, and I hope some of the luck will rub off on to me.
Kind regards,
Pat

[asaph]

I have found tracing my Irish ancestry very hard.
I have Two families in County Antrim and living in the Town of the same name.
Bryson and Campbell.
I am also trying to research Simpson in County Tyrone  they lived in an area called segully.
the a Mcknight Family in Waterford villerstown.
If any one has ideas especially on the Simpson family in segully Tyrone. Let me know.

asaph

[Christopher]

Hello asaph,

Have you dates for your Irish ancestors? Have you posted details on the boards? This site http://www.thecore.com/seanruad is to show the approximate location of Segully. It is a 513 acre townland in the Barony of Omagh West. It is in Longfield East Parish and in Omagh PLU

Best Wishes, Christopher 

[Okonski]

I thought I was up and running with mine, but it went pear-shaped. I was able to trace back to a Marriage Certificate of a now-defunct church (St Mark's - Dublin). Fortunately, as a Church of Ireland establishment, when the parish is amalgamated, all the records go to the CoI Library which is in Churchtown (how appropriate!) Dublin.  Because I had identified St Marks as the marriage location, I was hoping that I'd find my Gt-Gt-Gndmothers Baptismal Record, as her hubby was Scottish, is seemed reasonable to assume it was her 'home' parish.  The library gave me access to the original Register used between 1830-1860 and I ploughed through it, but even though the writing was faded in places, there was no bith record in that period for that Parish, and short of going through every equivalent book, I'm effectively stuffed.

Interestingly though, I noted a similar family surname, where 5 children to the same couple registered the birth's of 4 girls and a boy. Their name was clearly Smith, but the child's surname was shown variously as Smyth and Smith, even when the baptism was done by the SAME clergyman! 

[aj]

Thanks for the input you all! in particular Pat- thanks! Very useful advice and thanks for reading my ramble! Another to follow!

I made a mistake- put 1837 rather than 1847 as their Cockermouth arrival time,also 1851 rather than 1841 census info.

Also forgot to say-    I did get the birth certificate for Hannah born in Cockermouth ( GRO)- listed as daughter of my Solomon (born Ireland 1799)-  not sure if it was the right one- dates and name fit, when I got the cert the place (Butts Fold) also fits, but parents were not the people I was expecting to find based on the 1851 census (not 41 as stated earlier- sorry). Hannah on the cert is listed re mother Sarah (on the census there is also a Sarah daughter of Solomon)

It could be the wrong cert or could it be that the child Hannah was daughter of Sarah- who is census listed as daughter of Solomon, rather than Hannah actually being daughter of Solomon? ( I guess they could have said that the young child was their own, rather than their daugters's child?)I guess there could have been many socialor possibly immigration /poor law reasons to do this? Or it could simply be that i ordered the only certificate that seemed to be the right one,but was wrong!

I hope this makes sense...

But anyway- Solomon and Sarah (his daughter) are both born Ireland, I have the 'daughter' - Hannah- born in Cockermouth - cert - (if it is the right one- but seemed like the only one!)  doesn't help re religion, denomination or place of origin. AAAHH!

As yet I have not had an opportunity to check Cockermouth baptism records (I am not in the area) but I guess checking records for all church denominations for the right year for Hannah the Cockermouth born child is my next step, visit Cockermouth! Then come back for more help from you gang!

Thanks again, good advice,reaaly heled to clarify thoughts and course of action- need to get to Cumbria and check out parish records!

Best wishes

Amanda

[asaph]

Hello asaph,

Have you dates for your Irish ancestors? Have you posted details on the boards? This site http://www.thecore.com/seanruad is to show the approximate location of Segully. It is a 513 acre townland in the Barony of Omagh West. It is in Longfield East Parish and in Omagh PLU

Best Wishes, Christopher 

Yes I did post to the Tyrone forum.  no replies as yet.

[Patk]

Dear Amanda

Do you not think that Hannah could be the child of Sarah and Solomon, son of Solomon? Or, perhaps Solomon had married again?
The mortality rate of the Irish was very high in Manchester, and I have a similar family which took me six months to unravel, and then when I did, the answer was so clear I was almost ashamed! I think you have to look at all possibilities, Solomon born c 1799, would have been quite old to have a daughter in c 1848, but not impossible if he had married a younger woman. That is my first reaction, but I still think that you may find a baptismal record very helpful if you can find one.
I do not know what your information is on the 1851 but if she was Solomon's granddaughter for instance, it might pay you to look around the census and see if you can find junior! Families did get separated looking for work, particularly women, who can be found working as servants, and some distance away from their family. Perhaps the 1861 census may help you too.
Not sure if this helps at all, but believe me away from their little Irish communities life was a struggle for them, and you have to keep and list all possibilities in the hope that one day it will become clearer.
Kind regards and good luck,
Pat