Author Topic: Harris coat of arms  (Read 3634 times)

Offline Edward Scott

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Harris coat of arms
« on: Sunday 01 October 17 16:56 BST (UK) »
Attached is a photo of the arms on top of the memorial to Robert Harris in Wisbech and also a 'translation' of same.

I am a complete novice in this area and would like to know firstly if someone can please explain which bits of the description match the arms, secondly would these have to have been approved by the College of Arms and finally (for now)  how would one try to see if they were based on an existing one?

I am guessing that the containers shown on the right relate to his profession.

many thanks

Edward
Scott - Lincolnshire
Jobson - Lincolnshire, Suffolk
Needham - Lincolnshire
Wayet - Lincolnshire

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Harris coat of arms
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 01 October 17 18:43 BST (UK) »
Your pdf file is missing the right-hand edsg, but I'll hazard an educated guess:

"per pale" means there are 2 divisions, divided by a vertical line (so side-by-side).

The First (on the left) is "O" or Or otherwise Gold for the field, and has a Bend (a diagonal stripe running from top left to bottom right) of "B" = blue, on which are 2 cinquefoils of the 1st (colour).

This is impaling (a term meaning side-by-side) a 2nd arms:
A red field on which is a Chevron Ermine (black on white pattern, representing ermine fur), dividing 3 pears (Or = gold).

The crest is a Talbot (a type of hunting dog) (not visible on your colour photo?).


Arms were granted to a named individual by the College of Arms, and may be used by male descendants of the armiger.
They do NOT belong to anyone with the same surname! ;D


Impaling arms like this was often done to show the arms of both husband and wife.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Edward Scott

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Re: Harris coat of arms
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 01 October 17 18:54 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for your reply, description attached in a different format

I need time to work through this but the top of the arms is probably at least 15 feet up & very difficult to photograph without a stepladder.

Are what I thought were containers relating to apothecary actually pears?

thanks again

Edward
Scott - Lincolnshire
Jobson - Lincolnshire, Suffolk
Needham - Lincolnshire
Wayet - Lincolnshire

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Harris coat of arms
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 01 October 17 19:12 BST (UK) »
Yes! The "containers" are in fact pears!
Artistic licence?!

The blazon (that's what heralds call the description!) says the 2nd half is "G", which means Gules, or red.
So I got that right from the picture. ;D
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)


Offline Edward Scott

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Re: Harris coat of arms
« Reply #4 on: Monday 02 October 17 15:05 BST (UK) »
Thanks again


Arms were granted to a named individual by the College of Arms, and may be used by male descendants of the armiger.
They do NOT belong to anyone with the same surname! ;D

Impaling arms like this was often done to show the arms of both husband and wife.

The original subject was Robert Harris coat of arms, unfortunately I had a few issues posting this & had to change it. I am aware of the ownership of arms.

I believe that if husband / wife arms were impaled then the wife would be on the right, if this is correct then it may exclude this as a possibility due to the artistic pears matching containers used in apothecary.

Edward
Scott - Lincolnshire
Jobson - Lincolnshire, Suffolk
Needham - Lincolnshire
Wayet - Lincolnshire

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Harris coat of arms
« Reply #5 on: Monday 02 October 17 15:15 BST (UK) »
IMHO the pears are absolutely nothing to do with apothecary! ;D
I think you're seeing something that the artist didn't intend?

Arms with pears are usually puns on the family name? E.G. Perry, Pearmain, etc.

George Abbott, Archbishop of Canterbury had the Abbott arms on the right-hand side of his arms:
Gules, a chevron between three pears pendent or.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Mart 'n' Al

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Re: Harris coat of arms
« Reply #6 on: Monday 02 October 17 16:25 BST (UK) »
Again, I'm not an expert, just a long-time student of heraldry and I agree with all KGarrad has said.  Searching the net for 'pear heraldry' does not show anything like those pictured.  They actually looked more like water containers than fruit.  None of my books shows anything similar.  Perhaps the ancient herald "didn't get out much" and hadn't seen a pear?

I even uploaded the whole shield, and also just one 'pear' to Google Image Search and it failed (as it usually does!)  Interestingly, there is a type of cider/perry called 'Harris Pear'.

Martin

Offline Edward Scott

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Re: Harris coat of arms
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 October 17 17:15 BST (UK) »
Gentlemen many thanks for your input, I still like to think that there is a sense of humour to the pears.

See the attached picture from here http://www.theglassmuseum.com/Englishvials.html

Edward
Scott - Lincolnshire
Jobson - Lincolnshire, Suffolk
Needham - Lincolnshire
Wayet - Lincolnshire

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Mart 'n' Al

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Re: Harris coat of arms
« Reply #8 on: Monday 02 October 17 17:34 BST (UK) »
Perhaps they are perry flagons, after redesigning the shield at the local hostelry.

Martin