Saul/Charles Berlyn from Holland

[singerjess]

Hi there,

I have a Catherine married to a Charles Berlyn (b. approx 1814) from Holland in the 1851-1871 census' (Charles is then a widower 1881-1891). The only marriage record I can find between a Catherine and a Berlyn is between a Saul Berlyn and Catharine Davis in 1845 Birmingham (Vol 16 Page 383). I'm not sure why he would have changed his name from Saul to Charles?

The only birth record for a Saul Berlyn in Holland is on familysearch is a Saul Moses Berlijn (b. 1818) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X13M-V5S.

I can't find a passenger list with a suitable time for him coming over to England, the only one I've found is 1854, coming from Rotterdam on the Diana and travelling with an M Berlyn. By this time he would have been married to Catherine.

Any ideas on whether this is all the same person would be wonderful! I can order the marriage certificate as my next port of call, but thought I'd ask here first in case anyone has any bright ideas or knowledge they can share with me!

[KGarrad]

I searched the Dutch website www.wiewaswie.nl/en and found no births fro a Charles or Saul.
I tried variant spellings of Berlin, Berlyn and Berlijn.

There were Berlijn familes registering births in Utrecht and Nieuwveen, around 1810-1820.
The family in Utrecht would appear to be Jewish, going by the forenames (rebekka, Salomon, Moses, Machiel etc).

As for passenger lists - none were kept (or recorded) of travel between Europe and the UK. Unless the relevant boat was also coming from further afield.

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
I've checked the GRO index for their children's birth and yes their mother was a Miss Davis so it is the right marriage.
Go ahead and order!
There is a family tree on Ancestry with parents for Charles Saul Berlyn.
Moses Abraham Berlyn 1790-1870 and Marianne Abraham Phillips Haag 1787-1851 from Amsterdam but living in London at Spitalfields and Whitechapel.
They are dealers in old clothes and their surname in Holland is Berlijn

Obviously I can't check everything on the family tree but the marriage is the right one and hopefully the certificate will give lots more detail.

ps there's a photo for John Jonah the son on there you might want to see.

Ciderdrinker

[singerjess]

Thanks both, I'll put it on my list of certificates to order! Yes I saw that Ancestry family too, but there is a record on familysearch for a Saul Moses Berlijn with those parents and I just wasn't sure if it was the right person, or if 2 and 2 had been put together to make 3!

Cheers for the pointers!

[KGarrad]

Marriage
18th June 1814 Amsterdam

Moses Abraham Berlijn, age 24, born Maarssen, profession: Koopman (Merchant)
Parents: Abraham Moses Berlijn and Eva Meijer
  to
Mariana Abraham Haag, age 25, born Amsterdam
Parents: Abraham Philip Haag & Claartje Abraham

https://www.wiewaswie.nl/en/detail/35418876

Note: the "ij" digraph or letter is usually transcribed as "y", and a lot of names containing ij were anglicised to be spelled with y.

[JustinL]

The Berlijn family were unmistakably Jewish. Like all the Jews living in the French-occupied Netherlands, they were encouraged (or obliged) to adopt permanent surnames or confirm that they were retaining a previously used surname.

Two men by the name of Moses Abraham, i.e. Moses son of Abraham, adopted the surname Berlijn in 1811. The original records in Dutch can be viewed here https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-9GYN-V?i=309&cc=2020117&cat=80379 and here https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-9G1M-J?i=89&cc=2020117&cat=80379

The signature of M A Berlijn on the marriage certificate appears to me to more closely resemble that on the second record cited above.

The transcript of the 1788 marriage of Abraham and Eva is here https://www.dutchjewry.org/phpr/amsterdam/tim_ashken_marriages/amsterdam_tim_ashken_marriages_view.php?editid1=6789

[singerjess]

Thanks Justin!