family history of travelling showmen

[Wendy Downie]

To try and summarise, I think this is what we know about Armond Carloman, his wives and children:

Unknown date – born, Paris, France
1863/4 – Birth of son, William Carloman, Wolverhampton
1866 – Birth of son, Armond Carloman, Blackburn
1867 – Birth of son, Henry Carloman, Wolverhampton
1868 – Birth of daughter, Christina/Christancia Carloman, Birmingham
1870 – Birth and death of son, Albert Edward Carloman, Bury
1875 – Death of 1st wife, Mary/Maria Jordan, Newcastle upon Tyne
1880 – Marriage to 2nd wife, Catherine Johnston, Nottingham
1881 – Census, resident in Trallwmgollen, Montgomeryshire
1898 – Death, Belfast

So, can a marriage be found for Armond Carloman (XXXX – 1898) and Mary/Maria Jordan (c. 1831-1875), most likely a short time before 1864?

Did Armond and Catherine have any children?

Our great grandmother Angelina(Ann) was married in Glasgow on 25th May 1875, aged 18 to James Coats.  Her parents were Armond and Mary ms Jordan and both still living on that date.Would suggest wedding Armond/Mary was in 1850's and Angelina was his first child

[LizzieL]

Hi Wendy, there is a birth of a Armond Carloman in Q1 of 1866 in Blackburn registration district. Is this your ancestor?

Do you know where Armand and William lived or how you have got back to them? It may help to share as much as you know.

Also, I see there is a James Armand Carloman (possible later relative) who served in WW1. He was born 16 January 1897 and his father was Henry and mother Mary Ann

from new GRO index, Armond Carloman's mother's maiden name was Horden. But can't find a likely marriagr

Looks like what the GRO index transcribes as Horden should be Jorden/ Jordan

[Wendy Downie]

Hi Wendy, there is a birth of a Armond Carloman in Q1 of 1866 in Blackburn registration district. Is this your ancestor?

Do you know where Armand and William lived or how you have got back to them? It may help to share as much as you know.

Also, I see there is a James Armand Carloman (possible later relative) who served in WW1. He was born 16 January 1897 and his father was Henry and mother Mary Ann

from new GRO index, Armond Carloman's mother's maiden name was Horden. But can't find a likely marriagr

Looks like what the GRO index transcribes as Horden should be Jorden/ Jordan

Thankyou, we have so much conflicting documentation, that what started out as a half hour dalliance while a shower passed has turned into a marathon! Previous research had Catherine as mother but have now changed this to Mary Jordan but have been unable to find proof. We are relative newcomers to genealogy and not very IT literate so sruggling somewhat

[Vimto]

Hi Wendy, the proof of Mary Jordan being the mother of Angelina is evidenced in her 1875 marriage certificate, which shows her parents as Armond Carloman and Mary Jordan. You also have the baptismal record for Christina/Christancia in 1868, which cites her mother as Maria Jordan. What would be nice would be to find baptismal records for the other children, Angelina included, as well as finding a marriage between Armond Carloman and Mary/Maria Jordan.

[Wendy Downie]

Catherine left a will
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014912/005014912_00300.pdf
I think it should be available on one of the Northern Ireland sites but which one escapes me.

Hi, have just found will on ancestry, beneficiary a Thomas M'Candlis, another mystery!

[carolineasb]

Have you contacted the Showmen's Guild to see what Archives they have?

[willsy]

Just adding to davidqueneherve find

Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald

There is a snippet view which mentions...their leader Jack Taylor...and a very tough individual Carloman

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kow/

[willsy]

I popped Adam Forepaugh in Chronicling America and there are some wonderful advertisements

Here's a couple

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01koz/

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kox/

Adam Forepaugh...might help you look in America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Forepaugh

http://www.circusfans.org/res_det.php?res_id=328

http://www.circushistory.org/Routes/4P1878.htm

[willsy]

Vimto

I really enjoyed looking at the papers after you posted your advice, it is very interesting.