Allan Neill Private Royal Army Service Corps service number 224240/ 2202110

[groom]

That would only be Margaret's mother's birth if her mother was also illegitimate wouldn't it? If Margaret was a Milroy and her parents were married her mother's maiden name wouldn't be Milroy.

You need to get Margaret's birth certificate which would give her parents' names.

[SHUSHIE]

That would only be Margaret's mother's birth if her mother was also illegitimate wouldn't it? If Margaret was a Milroy and her parents were married her mother's maiden name wouldn't be Milroy.

You need to get Margaret's birth certificate which would give her parents' names.

Margarets dad is not stated on any of the marriages she had so I don't think he was stated whoever he was? so without a clue to his name it would be impossible but I think this is the mother not everyone got married back then...

[groom]

Interesting that on her entry to the US, Margaret gives her race as Dutch and says she speaks Dutch and German as well as English. She states at one point that her father is Wilheim C. Nellier, so it seems she did know who her father was.  Her mother married a year after her birth, but not to Wilheim so how did she learn Dutch and German - did she keep in touch with her father?

This is turning out to be a complicated and interesting family.

[SHUSHIE]

Interesting that on her entry to the US, Margaret gives her race as Dutch and says she speaks Dutch and German as well as English. She states at one point that her father is Wilheim C. Nellier, so it seems she did know who her father was.  Her mother married a year after her birth, but not to Wilheim so how did she learn Dutch and German - did she keep in touch with her father?

This is turning out to be a complicated and interesting family.

My opinion  is the name Nellier could be a play on the name Neill the man she married in 1940 Wilheim a play on the name William? and C thrown in for good measure she obviously had a strange dialect has she was probably half Scottish? did she have a Scottish accent or a broken one? at the time 1948 going 2 the USA emigrating you would have to give has much info of parents where you came from ect because of the war she may have lied  I think she made it up was she fluent in Dutch and German? or just knew a few words? yet English, perhaps Carl Colson Pilot could speak German and Dutch and taught her? he would have been posted in both places during the war Its only an assumption but I can find no marriage for her mum except to Mclure on the marriage cert of Margaret and Neill in 1940 perhaps Margaret was of different ethinic background?

[Annette7]

I'll be surprised if it isn't as they had only just married.

It appears 1st and 2nd child were very close together probably 11 months? also can I ask your opinion Groom I think this is Margaret's  mum's birth? see attachment  I'm going by birth place Marpole

This lady was born 1911 - Margaret was born 1923 which would make her only 12 when Margaret born??   Don't think this is the one.

In frustration I purchased some credits for SP myself - as mentioned earlier on, Margaret's mother was Jeanie McGuffie Milroy - found her in births index as born in 1900 and duly looked at certificate: she was born 23/4/1900 in Glenluce, Wigtownshire, dau. of George Milroy, ploughman and Margaret Morrow Milroy, nee Handling married 14/12/1899.

I should say 'welcome' to the vagaries of Scottish research.   Whilst their certificates include far more information I should also point out that Christian names (more especially the womens) had a number of variants so on the census, for example, it can often be different to what you expect.   A classic one is Jeanie - it can also be Jean, Jane, Janet!   My own Scottish grandmother was born as Jeanie, known as Jean in her family, and Jane by her husband.   (Another classic is Margaret who can also be Meg, Maggie).

Anyway, Jeanie McGuffie Milroy married Walter McClure 1924 (again, as already mentioned) but her death is registered as plain Jean McClure - she died 13/3/1957 Dailly, Ayr, certificate confirms names of her parents, that she was widow of Walter McClure and the informant was a John Armstrong, brother in law.

Found her on 1901 census in Inch, Wigtownshire aged 8 months as Janet McGuffie Milroy (see what I mean about names?).

If the details given for Margaret's Dutch father are untrue she must have had a very vivid imagination!   Will be interesting to see if his name is included on her birth certificate - sometimes they say 'reputed father' but who knows with this one? 

Annette

[groom]

Well done again, Annette, so now we know where the Handling part of Margaret's name came from. I should have noticed the date on that other certificate, but I got caught up with trying to explain it was unlikely as it was a Milroy!

I think Shushie problaby needs to print out this thread and go through it carefully as there is a lot of information here about 3 different families.

The puzzle now is what happened to Allan Neill, did he die between 1942 and her second marriage as Margaret claimed, or did he just disappear? If that is the case, it doesn't look as if they divorced or that would be on the second marriage certificate. So did Margaret make a bigamous second marriage?

This is on the WW2 thread so perhaps someone knows - is every one who was killed fighting named on the CWGC site, or are there others, perhaps who were listed as missing presumed dead, who were never found? If so maybe Allan was one of those. 

[Annette7]

Since a search of Allan Neill born 1917/1918 in births on SP reveals just one in 1917, and likewise in deaths just one who died 2009 aged 91 in Edinburgh I can't help wondering if this is the same person and the Allan Neill being searched for here!   If it was the same person and death registered by a family member could his family have the answers as to what happened (assuming here, of course, that it was 'our' man).   We keep coming back to more questions than answers!   

Certainly, if Margaret's husband had been reported as 'missing in action' this could be the traumatic event that caused her to return to Scotland after the birth of 2nd child and how said child ended up in care especially if the Red Cross were involved.   But we just don't know the actual details, do we (only that the event happened and that the child was ultimately raised by non-family)?

Annette     

[groom]

I agree, that is the problem, too many questions and no obvious way to find the answers.

If the Allan who died in 2009 is the same one, he must have returned at the end of the war in 1945, so why didn't he and Margaret get back together. The fact that she isn't down as a divorcee is also puzzling if that is the case.

As I see it, there may be a couple of ways to answer this  a) find his war records, apply for them and see what they say or b) follow up the death of the 2009 one and try and make contact to see if it is the same person. Also if we could find the family of Carl Colson in the US, they may just know what happened as well.

[SHUSHIE]

I agree, that is the problem, too many questions and no obvious way to find the answers.

If the Allan who died in 2009 is the same one, he must have returned at the end of the war in 1945, so why didn't he and Margaret get back together. The fact that she isn't down as a divorcee is also puzzling if that is the case.

As I see it, there may be a couple of ways to answer this  a) find his war records, apply for them and see what they say or b) follow up the death of the 2009 one and try and make contact to see if it is the same person. Also if we could find the family of Carl Colson in the US, they may just know what happened as well.

   Just gone over the marriage cert it was difficult to read but states looking at it closely obtained a divorce so she did indeed divorce Allan Neill sometime between 42 and 48 but I haven't found the divorce would she have to go back to Scotland to obtain a divorce? having been married there