Author Topic: Allan Neill Private Royal Army Service Corps service number 224240/ 2202110  (Read 17284 times)

Offline groom

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Re: Alan Neill...Help
« Reply #54 on: Thursday 31 August 17 19:55 BST (UK) »
From the information that we have and from what Annette has found, I would guess something like the following scenario similar to that suggested by Annette:

Both Margaret and Allan are born in Scotland. They marry in January 1940. Margaret is only 17 at the time. Margaret and Allan have the first child R in 1941 in Scotland. It will be interesting to see if Allan is in the army when she is born.

Margaret at least is in London by the birth of her and Allan's second child in 1942, so at 19 she has  two children probably under 18 months old. Remember as well that this is in the middle of World War 2 and that London wouldn't be the safest place to be, so perhaps she returned to Scotland for safety. For some reason she couldn't cope with both children and the Red Cross has the baby fostered out.

Allan disappears from the scene - probably not killed in the war but may have been reported missing, or maybe they were just too young and the marriage broke up.

She returns to London with her first child and meets Carl Colson, who was probably stationed in the UK during the war, having a child with him before marrying him and returning to the USA when he goes home.

It could be that her second child was removed from her custody for some reason and that is why she wasn't allowed to reclaim her and take her with them to the UK. Have you tried getting records from the Red Cross to find out what happened?

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Offline Annette7

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Re: Alan Neill...Help
« Reply #55 on: Thursday 31 August 17 19:57 BST (UK) »
There is no need for me to PM you details - all I know is what you yourself can see for free - in statutory births on Scotlands People just enter Neill and Rosalind and it brings up 2 - the first one 1941 will be the one you need and it has a link there for you to order the certificate.

As I said before we just don't know the facts of the situation and making judgments based on the very limited information known is somewhat futile.   If the marriage had indeed broken down and she couldn't cope with a toddler and baby on her own perhaps she returned to Scotland in the hope that the Neill's would take the child - who know's?   We could hypothesize for ever.   It takes a lot for a woman to give up her child so it must have been something pretty traumatic to cause her to do so.   

Whatever the cause she kept her eldest child with her and returned to England and then had a relationship with the US Carl Clayton Colson whom she subsequently married.   I doubt she ever saw her 2nd daughter again and that taking her to the US with her new husband wasn't a viable option.  I don't think they appear in outgoing UK passenger lists because they would have been transported to the US by the US  authorities and this was on a US Overseas Aircraft 

You say you have her 2nd marriage certificate  - does it say that she was divorced or was she claiming to be a widow?

Annette   

 
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Offline SHUSHIE

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Re: Alan Neill...Help
« Reply #56 on: Thursday 31 August 17 20:03 BST (UK) »
From the information that we have and from what Annette has found, I would guess something like the following scenario similar to that suggested by Annette:

Both Margaret and Allan are born in Scotland. They marry in January 1940. Margaret is only 17 at the time. Margaret and Allan have the first child R in 1941 in Scotland. It will be interesting to see if Allan is in the army when she is born.

Margaret at least is in London by the birth of her and Allan's second child in 1942, so at 19 she has  two children probably under 18 months old. Remember as well that this is in the middle of World War 2 and that London wouldn't be the safest place to be, so perhaps she returned to Scotland for safety. For some reason she couldn't cope with both children and the Red Cross had her fostered out.

Allan disappears from the scene - probably not killed in the war but may have been reported missing, or maybe they were just too young and the marriage broke up.

She returns to London with her first child and meets Carl Colson, who was probably stationed in the UK during the war, having a child with him before marrying him and returning to the USA when he goes home.

It could be that her second child was removed from her custody for some reason and that is why she wasn't allowed to reclaim her and take her with them to the UK. Have you tried getting records from the Red Cross to find out what happened?
No I haven't I have google Red Cross is there a website to contact nothing is cominup is thee a records office?
Buckley Loveridge Upton Lee Harris Miller Wilson Foster Burnside Fury

Offline SHUSHIE

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Re: Alan Neill...Help
« Reply #57 on: Thursday 31 August 17 20:09 BST (UK) »
There is no need for me to PM you details - all I know is what you yourself can see for free - in statutory births on Scotlands People just enter Neill and Rosalind and it brings up 2 - the first one 1941 will be the one you need and it has a link there for you to order the certificate.

As I said before we just don't know the facts of the situation and making judgments based on the very limited information known is somewhat futile.   If the marriage had indeed broken down and she couldn't cope with a toddler and baby on her own perhaps she returned to Scotland in the hope that the Neill's would take the child - who know's?   We could hypothesize for ever.   It takes a lot for a woman to give up her child so it must have been something pretty traumatic to cause her to do so.   

Whatever the cause she kept her eldest child with her and returned to England and then had a relationship with the US Carl Clayton Colson whom she subsequently married.   I doubt she ever saw her 2nd daughter again and that taking her to the US with her new husband wasn't a viable option.  I don't think they appear in outgoing UK passenger lists because they would have been transported to the US by the US  authorities and this was on a US Overseas Aircraft 

You say you have her 2nd marriage certificate  - does it say that she was divorced or was she claiming to be a widow?

Annette   

 
She is stated as Widow so she must have know Alan had died so I am presuming he died either in 42 or just after after 42?
Buckley Loveridge Upton Lee Harris Miller Wilson Foster Burnside Fury


Offline SHUSHIE

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Re: Alan Neill...Help
« Reply #58 on: Thursday 31 August 17 20:23 BST (UK) »
From the information that we have and from what Annette has found, I would guess something like the following scenario similar to that suggested by Annette:

Both Margaret and Allan are born in Scotland. They marry in January 1940. Margaret is only 17 at the time. Margaret and Allan have the first child R in 1941 in Scotland. It will be interesting to see if Allan is in the army when she is born.

Margaret at least is in London by the birth of her and Allan's second child in 1942, so at 19 she has  two children probably under 18 months old. Remember as well that this is in the middle of World War 2 and that London wouldn't be the safest place to be, so perhaps she returned to Scotland for safety. For some reason she couldn't cope with both children and the Red Cross has the baby fostered out.

Allan disappears from the scene - probably not killed in the war but may have been reported missing, or maybe they were just too young and the marriage broke up.

She returns to London with her first child and meets Carl Colson, who was probably stationed in the UK during the war, having a child with him before marrying him and returning to the USA when he goes home.

It could be that her second child was removed from her custody for some reason and that is why she wasn't allowed to reclaim her and take her with them to the UK. Have you tried getting records from the Red Cross to find out what happened?
   I have just paid for the birth Cert of R 1941 on Scottish people will let you both know if the dad is Neill? really hope so fingers crossed
Buckley Loveridge Upton Lee Harris Miller Wilson Foster Burnside Fury

Offline groom

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Re: Alan Neill...Help
« Reply #59 on: Thursday 31 August 17 20:26 BST (UK) »
I'll be surprised if it isn't as they had only just married.
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Offline SHUSHIE

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Re: Alan Neill...Help
« Reply #60 on: Thursday 31 August 17 20:30 BST (UK) »
 Just paid for the birth cert of child R so fingers crossed its a development thanks hun for your help you really are a god send  I will let you know if its the one I am looking for sorry didn't know how easy it was on Scottish people to get the birth its terrible on ancestry you have to scroll through hundreds that's why I ask to save it so I am sorry for that thank you.....
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Offline SHUSHIE

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Re: Alan Neill...Help
« Reply #61 on: Thursday 31 August 17 20:47 BST (UK) »
I'll be surprised if it isn't as they had only just married.
It appears 1st and 2nd child were very close together probably 11 months? also can I ask your opinion Groom I think this is Margaret's  mum's birth? see attachment  I'm going by birth place Marpole
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Offline SHUSHIE

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Re: Alan Neill...Help
« Reply #62 on: Thursday 31 August 17 20:49 BST (UK) »
I'll be surprised if it isn't as they had only just married.
It appears 1st and 2nd child were very close together probably 11 months? also can I ask your opinion Groom I think this is Margaret's  mum's birth? see attachment  I'm going by birth place Maypole
it looks like dad Journeyman?
Buckley Loveridge Upton Lee Harris Miller Wilson Foster Burnside Fury