Mystery can't find relative after marriage possibly Chinese spouse

[dawnkaren]

ok so james ching was born in 1874 in bideford, confirmed by 1911, freebmd and also the gro, which gave the mums surname as being lacey, only marriage I can find is this one


Jun 1874   

CHING  Richard Eastman    Bideford  5b 910   
Lacey  Sarah     Bideford  5b 910

sooooooooooooo could this be where the ah came from (put Devonian accent on and say it and then expect a scouser that maybe having trouble with spelling (as many did have trouble))

[Hirondelle]

Hello,

Thank you for replying and looking up some records!

Unfortunately James Ching was born in 1855, his age is listed as being 34 in 1889 on the marriage bann. One of the witnesses was called Peter Chungting who married a woman called Emily.


On another forum for Liverpool history someone related to Emily found the below, her family had links to Singapore, I think her mother gave her occupation as relating to Chinese interests.

Peter Chunting, steward, full age
Marriage Date: 5 Jan 1884, 141 fredrick st?
Parish: Liverpool St Luke
Spouse's Name: Emily Moitt, age 19
Father's Name: John Chunting, Chinese Governor
Spouse Father's Name: William Henry Woitt, steward

From the same forum "1891 census at 13 Liver Street RG12/2910 f88 p18 ( which doesn't seem to be aviailable on Ancestry):

Peter Chung Ting head 45 Ship's Steward, China
Emily do wife 24, Litherland
Ahlan do daur 3, Liverpool

+ 4 chinese lodgers "


So it seems that the link is Chinese rather than Devon. I've still failed to find any trace of them , I wondered if they changed their name to something easier. James Ching does come up on some New York records as crew and passengers so perhaps they did migrate. It's odd that no one else I am related to has picked up on this at all though.

[dawnkaren]

I was using the info found for them both on the 1911 cencus, and that is where I got his age and place of birth from

[elzabels]

So it seems that the link is Chinese rather than Devon. I've still failed to find any trace of them , I wondered if they changed their name to something easier. James Ching does come up on some New York records as crew and passengers so perhaps they did migrate. It's odd that no one else I am related to has picked up on this at all though.

Have you noted William H MOITT was born in Singapore and was a mariner? You can find him listed on Liverpool Ships Crew. Was his house a B&B for the crew of the ship's he was on?

According to the baptism Peter Chung Ting was a boarding house keeper
Emily Louisa Chung Ting
BIRTH:    15 Feb
BAPTISM:    11 May 1890 - Liverpool, St Peter, Lancashire, England

This marriage has the father as Peter Chung Ting
Ah Lan Caroline Chung Ting
SPOUSE:    William Young Lai
BIRTH:    1885
MARRIAGE:    5 Jul 1904 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
RESIDENCE:    Liverpool, Lancashire,

NAME:    Charles W Y Lai
MOTHER:    Chung Ting ( Ah Lan Caroline as mother?)
BIRTH:    Jul 1911 - Liverpool, Lancashire

[Hirondelle]

Sorry yes Singapore here in this case.

I've been looking up the history of Chinese migration to Liverpool and I can find a lot of evidence on the 1911 census, Frederick Street was an area where a lot of the Chinese community lived. Peter Chung Ting who was a witness to the marriage of Eliza Redmond to James Ching lived on Frederick Street. I can find evidence of witness to the marriage bann,but no evidence of the actual people who got married! I'm just looking at Maria Moitt on the 1901 census now, she had two visitors from Japan living with her!


James Ching gave his occupation as steward, I have two sides of my family who worked extensively on the ships in Liverpool yet it seems James Ching doesn't come up on any of the crew lists. I was wondering if after marriage he reverted to a version of his name that wasn't Romanised eg below. 

'Ching, a Cantonese romanization of the Chinese surname Cheng
Chng or Ch'ng, the POJ romanization of the Chinese surname Zhuang
Ching, a Minnan romanization of the Chinese surname Zhuang'

But again when I tried searching these variations it didn't come up with anything. Obviously typing in just James and Eliza (with variations in case she changed to go by Elizabeth) throws up lots of hits but narrowing it down to the area of Liverpool still didn't seem to yield anything.

I've tried searching the street that was given on the original bann I've attached a crop of this, it's most likely St Vincent Street.

Thank you to everyone who has tried to help so far.

[elzabels]

Name:   Emily Chung Ting
[Emily Chung Moitt]
Gender:   Female
Marital Status:   Widowed
Age:   38
Birth Date:   1873
Marriage Date:   1 Jun 1911
Marriage Place:   St. Peter'S Church, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father:   William Henry Moitt
Spouse:   Ah Pooh Yee Shee Foo Ships Steward
Witnesses Ah Lan Young Lai  & Wong Hing?
Both living Frederick Street

[Hirondelle]

Name:   Emily Chung Ting
[Emily Chung Moitt]
Gender:   Female
Marital Status:   Widowed
Age:   38
Birth Date:   1873
Marriage Date:   1 Jun 1911
Marriage Place:   St. Peter'S Church, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father:   William Henry Moitt
Spouse:   Ah Pooh Yee Shee Foo Ships Steward
Witnesses Ah Lan Young Lai  & Wong Hing?
Both living Frederick Street

I found this last night too thank you, I used the above witnesses to confirm that the Ching surname wasn't from Devon. But still no trace of James Ching or Eliza Ching nee Redmond. I think I might just have to give up on it. I searched for them by street on the 1891 census they were no longer at St Vincent Street. 

[ThrelfallYorky]

I think that there might have been more Anglo-Chinese marriages than might be thought. I found a relative who married a Mr Lee - and when I went into the family, he was Chinese. At first it wasn't evident, from initials and surname. It was only when I came upon marriage record that I got his full name, and later original country.

[Hirondelle]

There is actually a very sad story connected to British women marrying Chinese men, after the war many of them were repatriated by the British government leaving their wives and family behind. There's more information here http://www.halfandhalf.org.uk/lcc.htm

I find it strange on Ancestry, distant relatives have also listed Eliza, but I seem to be the only one who has discovered this marriage record.