August 2005 RootsChat Challenge

[Joanna Tolhurst]

http://www.pitwork.net/jstocks/File10007a.jpg

http://www.pitwork.net/jstocks/File0004%20aa.jpg

Not an easy occupation and a world away from our family last month.

[alcrighton]

I had a look at the 1881 census to try and find John & Margaret

Search FreeBMD for Marriages Brampton 1880 10b / 625, gives:

Marriages Jun 1880
Batey John Brampton 10b 625
BELL John Brampton 10b 625
HESLOP Margaret Brampton 10b 625


Search FreeBMD for Marriages Brampton 1880 Margaret Bell, gives:

Marriages Jun 1880
BELL Margaret Ann Brampton 10b 525

Marriages Dec 1880
BELL Margaret Brampton 10b 638


So I got the image from 1837Online.

Margaret Ann Bell is clearly 10b 625

For those who are having difficulty with Margaret Bell
The page should read:

Marriages Jun 1880
Batey John Brampton 10b 625
BELL John Brampton 10b 625
BELL Margaret Ann Brampton 10b 625
HESLOP Margaret Brampton 10b 625


Just when I thought I had this resolved, I notice the Margaret Bell, married Dec quarter, 1880, and that June quarter is Margaret ANN ........

And now we have a John Batey in the mix.

There is also a Margaret Bell m. Haltwhistle 1880 Q2 10b 421


My head hurts. CP

Had a go at tackling the problem from the other end by trying to track down John & Margaret Batey is the 1881 census and there was nobody of the right age.  I did however come up with (RG11/5097 F84 P10):

John Batey, Head, 59, Ag Lab, b. Northumberland
Margaret Batey, Wife, 51, b. Acklington
Ann Batey, Dau, 11
James E Batey, Son, 8

In the 1871 census I came up with John Baty (49, Ag Lab) married to Mary and with (among others) a 1 year old daughter named Ann (Ref: RG10/5137 F126 p3).

Theory:  John Batey was widowed sometime after 1871 and then married Margaret Heslop in 1880.  Mary Ann Bell, Philip's daughter therefore married John Bell.

What do you think?

Al

[Joanna Tolhurst]

Found Margaret Ann and John Bell in 1891 (index had Beld instead of Bell):
at Farlam , Speltin Works?, ?burn Gate
John Bell 32 coal miner
Margaret Ann Bell wife 28
William 6
Tom 5
John Joseph 4
Robert James 2
Arthur 7 weeks

[Joanna Tolhurst]

And in 1901:
At Farlam Coalfell
John Bell 42 coal miner (deputy foreman)  all born Farlam
Margaret A wife 38
William 16
Tom 15
John j 13 Hauking shaft foot
Herbert J 11 working on (coal mine written above)
Arthur 10
George G 7
Margaret m 5
Christopher 3
ada 1
Catherine Armstrong serv 21 general serv domestic

If this is Margaret , Philip's daughter odd that with all those children one isn't named after him.

[Joanna Tolhurst]

Updated summaries, but haven't included our deliberations on Philip's daughter Margaret yet.
As well as trying to be sure of her marriage, can we find anything about Jane's in laws the Richardsons or John's in laws the Atkinsons.
Think we're going to need to find someone with easy access to Carlisle to check on the Upper Denton church records to conclude who our Philip's parents were.

Jo

[cep]

Historical background - Coal mines near Haltwhistle.

It would appear the mines or 'pits' in our area were all "drift mines", where the miners drove an inclined tunnel into the side of a hill and followed the gently-dipping seams of coal.

Not the deep mines with the sheave wheels set atop tall headgear, which is what comes to mind when coal is mentioned.

" In the Alston area at the border of Northumberland and Cumbria the Little Limestone Seam is very thin. At Ayle Colliery the miner is lying at the 40 cm high coal face in order to work the coal by a pneumatic pic."

http://www.mining-europe.de/smallmines/5/smallmines5.htm

Alston is just south of our area, and the pictures would be very typical.

More pictures and description of Ayle Colliery here:

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/a/ayle_colliery/index.shtml
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/a/ayle_colliery/index2.shtml


I have worked underground (not coal), and am stunned to find they were still mining like this in year 2000.


Tows Bank is very close to the Featherstone colliery. Pictures of the surface operations and surrounding countryside here:

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/t/tows_bank_colliery/index.shtml
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/t/tows_bank_colliery/index1.shtml


Description of Mining Occupations here:

http://www.dmm.org.uk/educate/mineocc.htm

See in particular  "Hewers"   and   "Trappers"

"1849: 
A little boy whose employment consists in opening and shutting a trap-door when required : his wages are 9d. or 10d. per day of 12 hours(1849). At present 1s. to 1s. 2d. per day of 8 hours. (1888). "



CP

[JAP]

Haltwhistle (and others of "our" villages) brings up lots of fascinating hits on Google.

JAP

[Joanna Tolhurst]

wonderful background info CP.  I'm used to the deep pits of south wales where my maternal grandmothers family were from 1870s.  Mum's aunts remember the washing being as dirty when they brought it in from drying as it was when it went out.

Jo

[Holly Golightly]

Hi All,

I noticed we didnt have Philip's wife after his death, so went looking for her on the 1901 census. Found her:
RG13/4827 Folio 72 Page 9
Park, Bellister, Haltwhistle
Margaret Head Widow 74 b-Brampton, Cumberland

Whats better, Is I think I have stumbled across Margaret (the daughter). In the household above Margaret (74) we find:

John Bell 43 Head Married Miner Coal b-Haltwhistle
Margaret A Bell 39 Wife Married b- Cumberland
Barbara A Bell 18 Daughter Single Dressmaker b-Northumberland
Philip H F Bell 9 Son b-Northumberland
L Jane Bell 8 Daughter b-Northumberland
Lucy Bell 5 Daughter b-Northumberland
Alice Mary Bell 2 Daughter b-Northumberland
John William Bell 7m Son b-Northumberland

I then looked on the 1891 and found them at Halton Lea Gate, Hartleyburn
(RG12/4250 Folio:50 Page:9)

John Bell 34/54 (First number could be a 3 or 5) Head Married Coal Miner b-Hartleyburn
Margaret A 29 Wife Married b-Midgeholm
Barbara A 8 Daughter b-Hartleyburn
Margaret 4 Daughter b-Hartleyburn

I think this seems to be "our" Margaret, ages fit and she has named children after her father Philip.

What do you all think?
Holly