Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!

[isobelw]

I have serious reservations about a Hermann Schwabe and Henry Schwabe being one and the same. Apart from the huge age difference already mentioned there is no indication anywhere in available records that Hermann was a Shipowner.
Isobel

[Forfarian]

I have serious reservations about a Hermann Schwabe and Henry Schwabe being one and the same. Apart from the huge age difference already mentioned there is no indication anywhere in available records that Hermann was a Shipowner.

Yes, I think I would agree.

Unfortunately there seem to have been at least two famous Heinrich Schwabes. One (1789-1875) was a distinguished amateur astronomer, but I have not been able to find out (so far) what his day job was; the other (1847-1924) was an architect and sculptor and Professor at the Nuremberg College of Applied Art, plainly too young to have met Jane Norval, but he comes up so frequently in searches that he swamps other references to Heinrich Schwabe.

[isobelw]

Sorry - just found him in the 1851 census in Ayr where he is described as a Merchant Shipper. Don't know if that means he owns his own ships or not. Still don't think he is the father of Jane.
Isobel

[Forfarian]

Sorry - just found him in the 1851 census in Ayr where he is described as a Merchant Shipper. Don't know if that means he owns his own ships or not. Still don't think he is the father of Jane.

What is the earliest reference found to Henry Schawbe/Schwabe in relation to Jane Norval's child?

[Forfarian]

I have completely lost track of what has and has not been posted already on this thread, but has anyone looked at the original baptism of James Gordon Blair, son of John Blair, on 7 October 1842, baptised October 1842 in the Ivy Place Associate Church, Stranraer, Wigtownshire?

1851 Census, Newton Ralston, Neilston, Renfrewshire (from FreeCEN)
John Blair, head, 47, joiner
Elizabeth Blair, wife, 47
Jean R Blair, daughter, married, 20, sea captain's wife
John Blair, son, 14
Hugh Blair, son, 13
Neil Blair, son 11,
James Blair, son, 9, born Stranraer
William Blair, son 6
Elizabeth Adair, granddaughter, 5

Interesting coincidence that there should be a daughter Jane apparently married to a Mr Blair?

[loobylooayr]

As far as I can recall the earliest mention we have found of Henry Schwabe as reputed father is Jane Norval/Schwabe/Drummond's marriage certificate on 12th Nov 1874 when she is 25 years old.
The same information is recorded on her death cert in 1911.

I don't think anyone has said that Herman Schwabe was Jane's father, only that he is a possible candidate , based on the fact that there were very few Schwabes in Glasgow circa 1841-1851 . There could of course have been a Henry Schwabe who has passed through Glasgow without leaving a trace on records. And then there is the "shipping" connection. We haven't found that Herman had a ship or ships but by the time Jane Drummond married information given to her may have been slightly muddled. All supposition
I wouldn't rule Herman out because of his age either. He may be 50 on the 1851 Census, however he has 3 children aged 10, 5 and 1 year old all born in Glasgow recorded with him.


Looby

[Forfarian]

As far as I can recall the earliest mention we have found of Henry Schwabe as reputed father is Jane Norval/Schwabe/Drummond's marriage certificate on 12th Nov 1874 when she is 25 years old.
The same information is recorded on her death cert in 1911.

So it is quite conceivable that Jane misrememberedthe given name of her errant father - whom she may never actually have seen.

[loobylooayr]

As far as I can recall the earliest mention we have found of Henry Schwabe as reputed father is Jane Norval/Schwabe/Drummond's marriage certificate on 12th Nov 1874 when she is 25 years old.
The same information is recorded on her death cert in 1911.

So it is quite conceivable that Jane misrememberedthe given name of her errant father - whom she may never actually have seen.

Exactly!
 Although, Schwabe is an unusual name in Glasgow at this time for Jane to have invented   But she may have misheard it or misheard the forename .
The Drummonds obviously take her on when she is very young. I have wondered if we could find a connection there.

Looby

[Rosinish]

1851 Census, Newton Ralston, Neilston, Renfrewshire (from FreeCEN)
John Blair, head, 47, joiner
Elizabeth Blair, wife, 47
Jean R Blair, daughter, married, 20, sea captain's wife
John Blair, son, 14
Hugh Blair, son, 13
Neil Blair, son 11,
James Blair, son, 9, born Stranraer
William Blair, son 6
Elizabeth Adair, granddaughter, 5

Interesting coincidence that there should be a daughter Jane apparently married to a Mr Blair?

On SP she's Jane.....

1851

BLAIR JANE R
20
572/ 10/ 27
Neilston
Renfrew

I don't have enough time to look for a marriage at the moment 1845 - 1851

Annie

Added, Think this may be her, born Ayrshire;

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VYYS-XXZ