Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!

[Rosinish]

1871 - Shipping Clerk
1881 - Commercial Clerk - Unemployed
1891 - Dock Labourer
1911 - Freight Clerk

I wonder where he was & what he was doing in 1901?

I've been contacted by the NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde Archive.▼

Owing to an increasing volume of enquiries, we are no longer able to undertake research in relation to biographical enquiries like this one. The relevant records are available for inspection and you are welcome to come in person or to hire a professional search agent to do the work for you.

We share a room with Glasgow City Archives on Level 5 of the Mitchell Library at Charing Cross.  We are usually open Wednesday to Friday but are sometimes unable to open due to staff shortages. 

A G Tough, Archivist

0141 287 2883 (Wednesday to Friday)

*** Anyone nearby?

Hi OZS,

It may be worth opening another thread to request a 'look-up' for this info?

It's not a lot to ask in terms & people are really good where they can help!

As long as you can quote all details you know, you may even need to contact the Mitchell Library to ask for a 'Reference' for the info. to help anyone willing to do a search for you as all info. you have would be very helpful to save time as it will need to be pre-arranged prior to their visit so that the info. is available on their specific date.

Annie

[majm]

1874 Glasgow Registry of Parliamentary Voters
Paterson BAMBER, 3 Corunna St, Customs Surveyor, tenant and occupant.  (Same address as on the 1868 marriage certificate)

1871, same details except occupation: Customs Officer
1869-70, same, Custom Officer

1868 Paterson BAMBER married,

1871 Paterson BAMBER was a shipping clerk, on the English Census with Georgina, his wife, at West Derby...

(So seems perhaps  TWO Paterson BAMBER chaps .... one in Scotland, and one in England ...  Father and Son  )

Re Mercantile Clerk v Customs Clerk
  Mercantile Clerk for occupation of Georgina's Dad when she married in 1868 in Scotland .... v Customs Clerk for Gordon BLAIR in Ipswich, Queensland in 1865....    As Georgina's Paterson BAMBER's (her father in law) occupation was Customs Surveyor, perhaps "Mercantile Clerk" was a convenient way for Georgina at 16 years of age to describe her Dad.

A Queensland Customs Clerk in the 1860s was a colonial government appointment, and Gordon's express responsibilities would have included charge of the locked powder magazine ... surely any gunpowder storeroom was kept under close supervision, any gunpowder issued would have needed to be well documented, weighed out precisely, careful handling, packaging etc, a 'hands-on' position.   Customs at Ipswich would have been involved in assessing any DUTY for imports from other colonies, particularly New South Wales and New Zealand, and of course EXCISE on alcohol etc.

A Mercantile Clerk (in 1860s Qld) would likely be a commercial appointment in the private sector, not a government position.

Re the 1868 marriage
The image shows no mention of if Georgina's dad and/or mum was/were  already known to be deceased ....
  Was it a compulsory question asked by the clergy at that time?     
Remember that earlier in this thread there's the 1861 Scottish census showing Jane NORVAL with Georgina and Jane was recorded as a widow

Re Joining dots
I am still having trouble joining dots for Gordon BLAIR in Qld being the husband of Jane NORVAL in Scotland, but regardless,  I cannot see that Georgina sought out the Blair family in Qld, or that James William BLAIR sought out Georgina's family when he went to England, as I have not yet found any likely newspaper cuttings re "Missing Friends" or "Missing Relatives" .... or similar.

Re 1901
And, answering Rosinish's question, I think in 1901, Paterson Bamber, husband of Georgina was recorded as a Dock Freight Clerk. 

Re Asking for further help
Excellent suggestion re asking for specific help.  May I suggest similar request on the Australia Board may find RChatter willing to go to Qld State Archives to look up Gordon BLAIR's land file of 1864 and even look up the Probate Files for Gordon and Julia.

JM
ADD : I was posting this around same time as the 're-boot' was kicking in,  and some of my sentences got 'mish-mashed' during my copy/paste from a word document, but I have subsequently edited.  11:40am NSW time 24 April 2017.

[majm]

I have gleaned an image of a 1874 marriage, Glasgow.  Ref 644/10 0347) Charles TAYLOR and Jane Drummond NORVAL  attached to an Ancestry SUBMITTED tree, which is also showing that Gordon BLAIR as the chap who died in Queensland in 1900.

Jane Drummond Schawbe signed aged 25,
of 113 Hospital St Glasgow,  a Spinster,
father : Henry Schawbe, Ship owner, (deceased) reputed father   
mother: Jane J Norval, formerly House Keeper afterwards Wife of Gordon Blair, Law Clerk.

Similar info on Jane TAYLOR’s 1911 dc., Jane NORVALL, and Gordon BLAIR were NOT noted as deceased, although Henry SCHAWBE was. 

May I please suggest our OP contacts the tree owner and asks for further info to show why/how their research has any connection to Gordon BLAIR in Qld...      I am happy to provide pdf of Isabella BLAIR's Qld birth cert if any 'new' documents are needed for any 'swap' of official documents.

JM

[isobelw]

I think we have ascertained beyond doubt now that the Gordon Blair in Queensland is the same one that was in the 1841 census in St Ninians, Stirling. Is he the same person that married Jane Norval in 1850? Not sure we will ever prove that conclusively and 'join the dots' However-
He is the only Gordon Blair to appear in the Scottish records in that period apart from Aeneas Gordon Blair who we have discounted.
He was born in Stirlingshire, as was the husband of Jane Norval per 1851 census.
He worked in the legal profession and Queensland Gordon claimed to have worked extensively in that field.
He disappeared from Scotland just prior to popping up in Australia ( no death found in U.K. Records).
He appears to have delayed marrying in Australia despite having several children.
If he is not the Gordon Blair who was married to Jane Norval, where was he in 1851 and where was Jane's husband in 1841?
Isobel

[majm]

Sorry, but I have not actually found any Queensland documents showing Gordon claiming to have extensive work experience in the legal field.   

I agree it is very likely that is him in 1841, but have we actually confirmed he was the chap noted as James Gordon or Gordon BLAIR fathering Jane/Janet's boys in 1853 and later  and the chap who married Jane Norval? 

The ship that he came to Australia left from Plymouth a week after the 1861 census .... have we sighted him there, he may have been gone from Glasgow when his mum et al left in the mid 1850s? 

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1HH-ZMK
 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F79D-72Y
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQQF-83X

And the 1861 census with Jane as a widow?

Sorry, but I have not ever joined dots by using the negative response and I am still not sure that it is accepted practice in family history researching...

If he is not the Gordon Blair who was married to Jane Norval, where was he in 1851 and where was Jane's husband in 1841?
Isobel

I don't understand why anyone would rely on info found on Ancestry trees, there's been many a thread about the hazards involved.   But I do support the OP seeking the tree owners to find out if they know of any connection between the Blair family in Qld and the Bamber family in Lancs.    Work back, one step at a time, don't jump generations, find the official records, seek out primary sources .... perhaps I am old fashioned, but if preparing information to give to a lady aged in her 80s then surely it needs to be accurate, and supported by independent sources.   To me, I reiterate, it does not matter what a person records on their own personal tree, but when preparing information to provide to someone else, pro bono or otherwise, it needs to be accurate, or there's no benefit in the gift.

JM

[isobelw]

Even if we can't ever prove the link, we have provided a lot of additional information regarding the Gordon Blair in Australia e.g. regarding his sisters and their families. Not sure where you have found the proof that his mother left Scotland in the 1850's?
Isobel

[isobelw]

majm posted - There is a Gordon BLAIR in Ipswich,Qld in the 1860s who is NOT working in a lawyers office.  Please see my earlier reply giving live links to newspaper cutting.

From an obituary in the Queensland Times Ipswich Herald and General Advertiser 25/8/1900 -
Gordon Blair was born in Scotland. He arrived in Australia almost 40 years ago and during nearly all of that time resided in Ipswich. He first entered the office of Hon Arthur McAllister, that gentleman at the time practising his profession as a solicitor in Ipswich. Mr Blair's somewhat extensive legal knowledge acquired in the old country served him in good stead in his fresh sphere of duty. It was in connection with her Majesty's Customs that deceased gentleman was best known. His first appointment with the government of Queensland dated from 8th May 1865.
Isobel

[sparrett]

I agree, the public record is not likely to tell us whether the Gordon BLAIR in Australia was previously married to NORVAL or otherwise.

The illustrious son, James [EDIT to correct this forename] William, who probably supplied the biographical notes for the obituary.
and may even have exaggerated the man's "legal knowledge" credentials as well as whatever other aspects he selected to highlight.
After all, he was a highly credible citizen

IF, he was the Gordon of the NORVAL marriage, it is fairly clear his extended family in Australia- mother and sisters- must have known of the earlier marriage, but perhaps Gordon's children did not.
 
However it has been an interesting challenge to dig out the information the team has found about Gordon BLAIR. 

Sue

[loobylooayr]

Jane Norval / Blair may have claimed in 1861 to be a widow as a façade of respectability or to obtain lodgings. She may have lied about her marital status to the woman she lodged with , She may have known Gordon had left Scotland for Australia forever and decided she was as good as a widow.
All supposition ...we will never know.
However if her husband Gordon Blair died in Scotland between 1857 and 1861 there is no register of his death , and there should be.

Re- The Mercantile Clerk as Gordon Blair's occupation on Georgina Blair's 1868 marriage cert - I wondered if that occupation came from Georgina's knowledge of what her father had done in Scotland rather than his occupation in Australia. A Mercantile Clerk would be employed by a shipping merchant perhaps? Which Henry Schwabe appears to have been? All supposition 
The fact the both Gordon Blair and Jane Norval are not recorded as deceased on this certificate means that Georgina did not declare them to be deceased. She should have been asked the question. However she may not have known for sure whether either was dead or alive.

I wish we could find Jane Norval / Blair after 1861 

Looby