Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!

[Rosinish]

Is there a chance of info. not concluded early doors in the research of this family from e.g. the g/parents of the living person who's tree this is?

Has everything been matched up conclusively from those g/parents or even the parents back the way?

Where names & similar occupations in same towns can be mixed up especially if mother's maiden names are not given, is it possible there may have been a mix-up early on?

Maybe a double check would do no harm?

I did mention about kind of back tracking & basically starting afresh somewhere but it seems to have been bypassed 

To me that would make more sense to establish where the info. became distorted?

Annie

[RJ_Paton]

I am not sure the image of the form you posted Falkyrn is actually showing  a signature.
Isn't the form completed by the registrar?

It all seems to be in the same hand, and I would have thought it the hand of said registrar??

Sue

The hand does look quite similar but there are slight differences in some of the lettering which possibly indicates a genuine signature. The section does claim that it is a space for the signature.

[majm]

From the 1876 Qld marriage registration,  we should remember that the page uploaded to the Ancestry online tree is a transcription of a transcription.    I explain:  The clergy conducted the ceremony and recorded it in his parish register.  Part of his responsibilities includes forwarding the details to the civil registrar.  So he did, (or he authorised someone to write them up for him) likely in long-hand and so together with details of other marriage ceremonies he had conducted in that same quarter of that year, those details arrived at the Brisbane (Civil) Registry.  We can see from the online image that the civil registrar then wrote those details up in the civil registry ledger.  So the information that both Gordon and Julia gave the clergy in 1876 was twice transcribed. 

If Julia's information was correct, particularly if Julia was aged 24 (rather than 27, it is possible to read the clerk's writing as 24, but I am included [oops, should read 'inclined'] to read it as 27) in July 1876, then baby Elizabeth born April 1863 was possibly conceived when Julia was about ten years of age.    

JM  edited to correct spelling mistake (      )

[Rosinish]

This is just chaotic 

I will say again.....

I think the whole thing needs reversed back to a decent time where facts were 'facts' (proven) such as the marriage of the parents or g/parents of the 'LIVING' person who can help clarify things then progress backwards from there 

Too much info. out of sinc & confusing for all concerned to be able to conclude right from wrong on any of the given info. so far?

Start at the beginning is my motto 

Annie

[majm]

My transcription of Qld dc for Gordon BLAIR.  (B91441, 1900) certified by Ipswich District Registrar 25 Feb 1987….  (typed, no long hand writing on the copy uploaded to a commercial family history website).

When died and where:
23 August 1900,  William Street IPSWICH

Name and surname, profession, trade or occupation, sex and age
Gordon BLAIR, retired civil servant, male,  66 years 11 months 4 days

Cause, duration, Medico, last seen by
Acute Bronchitis, Diarrhoea, Exhaustion, 4 days Dr Macdonald, 23 August 1900

Name and surname of father, Profession, trade or occupation, Name and maiden surname of mother
John BLAIR, hotel keeper and Jane DUN

Signature, description and residence of informant 
J.W. BLAIR, son, Ipswich

Signature of Registrar, date place of registration
M McDermott, 3 September 1900, Ipswich

When and where buried 
24 August 1900 Ipswich

By whom certified
J W REED

Name and religion of minister and two witnesses
Rev J Wilson Henry, C of E;  W Smith,  J. Brown.

Where born, how long in Australia ….
Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland, 40 years in Queensland

If deceased married – where, at what age, to whom
Brisbane, Stanley, Queensland, 24 years, Julia DROUGHTON

Issue living in order of birth …. 
Isabella Dun   36 years
Henry Gordon  34 years
James William  30 years

Deceased
1 female.

May I mention that James William BLAIR gives that Gordon was aged 24 years when marrying.  I wonder if perhaps he mis-heard the question the funeral director asked him….  I wonder if James had the mc in his hand at the time, and simply replied 24 years as though he was doing the sum :  1900 less 1876 …. 24 years (ago). 

JM  (thanks to an elderly rellie who is following this thread for that possible explanation for '24 years' on the dc).

[sparrett]

Jane Blair age 33 is supposedly the daughter of a John and Jane Blair ( both deceased) and it says her neice is also on board the ship ( but no indication of who that neice might be).
Isobel

Hi Isobel,
When  look at the image you have mentioned for Jane BLAIR, I think the words are "Nieces on board" not "Niece is on board"

Other instances of relatives on board for other passengers uses phrase for instance- "Cousin on board" omitting the word 'is'

What do you think?

The two nieces would then possibly be
 Elizabeth AITKEN (parents William and Jane)
Jane KIPPEN (Kipper) (parents William and Jane)

With Jane BLAIR's father being John and mother Jane, it looks like John and William are brothers to create the niece relationship.

Sue

[isobelw]

With or without the signature on the child's BC, the marriage points to the young lad from Dumfries who Falky pointed out 

"If this is the 19 yr farm labourer old from Dumfries- Could (or would) a man in his 30's having had a sedentary job be able or want to pass himself off as almost half his real age" 

Can I just point out that the 19 year old on the shipping record actually said he was from Stirlingshire, not Dumfries. We have independent corroboration from another passenger on the Mangerton that this Gordon is the same one who ended up in Ipswich and was the father of J. W Blair. So when he said he was born in Dumfries on the marriage certificate, was that a lie?
We know from Gordon's obituary that he resided in Ipswich for nearly the whole of his time in Australia. Yet in 1876,when he already had three living children with Julia Droughton, he told the registrar that he was living in Stanthorpe and Julia was living in Goondiwindi  - both a long way from each other and Ipswich!
Isobel

[isobelw]

Jane Blair age 33 is supposedly the daughter of a John and Jane Blair ( both deceased) and it says her neice is also on board the ship ( but no indication of who that neice might be).
Isobel

Hi Isobel,
When  look at the image you have mentioned for Jane BLAIR, I think the words are "Nieces on board" not "Niece is on board"


Other instances of relatives on board for other passengers uses phrase for instance- "Cousin on board" omitting the word 'is'

What do you think?

The two nieces would then possibly be
 Elizabeth AITKEN (parents William and Jane)
Jane KIPPEN (Kipper) (parents William and Jane)

With Jane BLAIR's father being John and mother Jane, it looks like John and William are brothers to create the niece relationship.

Sue

I agree with your reading Sue, and that would make a lot of sense.
Isobel

[sparrett]

So following on from previous post..
NOW- ------
Another option. Jane BLAIR (single woman) of the passenger list  was both nee BLAIR and married BLAIR.
{the term single can cover widowed etc.}

My transcription of Qld dc for Gordon BLAIR.  (B91441, 1900) certified by Ipswich District Registrar 25 Feb 1987….  (typed, no long hand writing on the copy uploaded to a commercial family history website).

Name and surname of father, Profession, trade or occupation, Name and maiden surname of mother
John BLAIR, hotel keeper and Jane DUN

 

From Ipswich Cemetery Register (Matching the birth finding (Reply#72 this thread).
Pioneer section.
BLAIR Jane (Daughter of John BLAIR & Jane DUN)
Date   18-Nov-1882
Aged   82
Buried with Jane MARKS
 
MARKS Jane (Daughter of BLAIR & Jane)
Date    25-May-1897
Aged   78
Buried with Jane BLAIR
Daughter of BLAIR and Jane

Reminder-
Government Assistance to Qld offered a big financial saving and was worth achieving if possible for immigration. Younger was obviously better than older and those who were used to domestic service and labourers were much in demand.


So if this is the Jane BLAIR who died at the home of her grandson William KIPPEN in 1882,aged 82 and whose DC lists three children-Jane, Gordon and Elizabeth she was lying about the relationship to the women on the ship
 
They were her daughters not nieces, but she wanted to appear much younger than her real age.

By her age at death Jane BLAIR was born about 1800 and lied about her age on the passenger list.

 Sue