Lissuman - Robert and Margaret Smith & Mary b 1884

[MissM]

Hello everyone,

My Great Grandparents, Robert and Margaret (nee Murphy) Smith lived in the cottage in the photos attached in Donaghmore in Dungannon with my Grandma Mary.  My cousin found the cottage with local help many years ago and although I realise it's probably well gone, I'm wondering if anyone local could take a guess at where it was.  My cousin said it was in Lissuman but I'm having trouble finding it.

I'm using Google Earth to search the area but I'm getting nowhere fast!

Any help would be appreciated!  I know I'm asking a lot!

MissM

[kingskerswell]

Hi,
   I wonder if the townland should read LISNAHULL.

Regards

[aghadowey]

If the townland name of 'Lissuman' has been passed down orally (rather than someone previously seeing it written in an actual document) then Lisnamonaghan might also be a possibility.
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/dungannon-middle/donaghmore/lisnamonaghan/

If we could find you family in records there's a better chance of identifying it correctly so that we can then try to pinpoint the location of the house.

So, when would your great-grandparents have been born or married? If your grandmother is dead her date of birth, or at least the year, would also help.

[MissM]

Thanks for your replies.  I'll have a look at the link.

Lissuman is the name that my cousin gave to the photos so at the moment, that's all I know about it.  I just know she went to Donoughmore in Dungannon.  She got chatting to an elderly gentlemen about the family and he remembered them and pointed her to this cottage!

In our family tree we have Robert's birth as 1837 and his wife Margaret Murphy as 1840.  Their daughter Mary was born in 1884 and lived in this cottage until she was married. In the 1911 census she is living with my Grandad, and two of their children in Drumatine, Glen in Down.

I just really wanted to actually see where they lived on Google Earth but my cousin is very vague about it all now!

Thanks for your help!

[aghadowey]

We need facts and sources in order to find this property for you. I've tried searching for Mary in 1911 census (Dromantine in Glen DED, Co.Down is the closest I could come to the Drumatine, Glen in Down you posted in last reply) but couldn't find her with husband & 2 children. I've also failed to find a birth c1884 with mother's name as Murphy, etc.

So, when did Mary Smith marry and what was the name of her husband?

Have you faound Mary Smith in 1901 census?

I did check Lisnahull townland in Valuation Revision Book for 1882-1890 and only Smith there was a William Smith.

Any idea when Robert and Margaret Smith died? have you found then in any records?

[MissM]

Hi, I've been in touch with my cousin again and she's now referred me to Lissummon in Poyntz Pass which is about 10 miles from where I was looking.  Why she posed next to a road sign for Dungannon I'll never know!

You are right about Mary in the 1911 census - Dromatine/Drumatine - but we haven't been able to find further back than that.  At the moment I'm concentrating on finding this house, or the site it was on, as the records are scant.

Thanks for your help in narrowing things down a bit.  I'm sorry if we sent you off on a wild goose chase!

PS: Here is the link to the Drumatine census we have. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Glen/Drumantine/253779/

[scotmum]

This link to a pdf document may be helpful (it includes the names Smith and Murphy in relation to Lissumon, Ponyntz Pass, as well as various 'maps'):

http://www.poyntzpass.co.uk/Before_I_Forget/1987_No_1/Rural_Change%20_in_the_Co_Armagh_Townland_of_Lissummon_1784_to_the_Present_Day.pdf

[aghadowey]

In order to find the property more information is needed. I have checked 1901 and 1911 townland of Lissummon for Smith/Smyth without finding a Robert or Margret who could be Mary's parents.

So, who was Mary's husband?

Here are the 1911 census surnames for Drumantine townland- which one is for Mary & her family?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Glen/Drumantine/
None of the married woman are named Mary (or a variation of the name) that I can see 

Once you answer the above questions the next stage is looking for Mary's marriage and then her birth which will hopefully end in finding the house

Location of Dumantine townland-
https://www.townlands.ie/down/iveagh-upper-upper-half/donaghmore/drumantine/

Location of Lissummon-
https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/orior-lower/killevy-lower-orior-portion/lissummon/

[MissM]

Sorry, I've crossposted.

Mary was listed as Margaret in the census link to the Drumatine census we have. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Glen/Drumantine/253779/

She married William James Kidd.  From the birth of her first daughter - no guarantee, I know! - I presume they were married in about 1909.

I've had a good read round the Poyntzpass website and the publication on there about Lissummon but can't quite figure out the borders!

We don't have anything else on Robert b 1837/d 1924 and Margaret (nee Murphy) b 1840/d unknown. 

Thanks for all your efforts to help me!:D