Author Topic: Latin Translation Needed on Endnote on Ancestor Burial Entry  (Read 1955 times)

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Latin Translation Needed on Endnote on Ancestor Burial Entry
« on: Monday 27 February 17 13:51 GMT (UK) »
My great grandfather's baby sister Elizabeth Conroy was buried at St Mary RC Church in Hexham on 1st June 1864, entry no. 272.  At the bottom of her burial entry is this latin in handwriting:

'Ob periculum mortis dormi baptizatus est a Margarita Dalton.'

Would anyone be able to translate this for me?

Baby Elizabeth had also been baptized at St Mary RC Hexham.  The baptism entry records that she was born on 7 May 1864 and baptized on 8 May 1864.  Her parents were my great x 2 Grandparents James and Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick.  Elizabeth's sponsors were James Dalton and Ann Rogers.

Just for a little bit of background information - from my research I believe that my Great x 2 Grandparents had an association/friendship with a Margaret Dalton who was the wife of a Patrick Dalton and she was also the daughter of a Jacob and Ann Miller nee Readhead.  Margaret's neice - Isabella Miller went on to marry Thomas Conroy who was the brother of my great Grandfather Simon Peter Conroy.  Margaret had a son called James Dalton who may be the sponsor named in this baptism entry.

I will be very grateful for any help anyone can give in translating the above latin message
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Latin Translation Needed on Endnote on Ancestor Burial Entry
« Reply #1 on: Monday 27 February 17 14:06 GMT (UK) »
The expected spelling would be ...
Ob periculum mortis domi baptizata est a Margarita Dalton

which translates as ...
Because of danger of death, she was baptised at home by Margaret Dalton

Offline R-WESTY

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Re: Latin Translation Needed on Endnote on Ancestor Burial Entry
« Reply #2 on: Monday 27 February 17 16:46 GMT (UK) »

Because of the risk of sleep was baptized by Margaret Dalton

SORRY i used gxxgle tranxlate
West's of sheringham,wickmere, norfolk  (fishermen/women)
Powell's York
Bishop (fishermen/women) sheringham area
Craske  (fishermen/women) sheringham area
Reynolds  (fishermen/women) sheringham area

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Latin Translation Needed on Endnote on Ancestor Burial Entry
« Reply #3 on: Monday 27 February 17 17:21 GMT (UK) »
Thank you both so much for the speedy response answers to my question. I really appreciate your help with this and now will add this to my family history information.   

Perhaps Margaret did not know for certain that Elizabeth had already been baptised and wanted to play safe, just in case.  Baby Elizabeth's parents were hawkers and I speculate that they may have left the baby in Margaret's care for whatever reason.

Many, many thanks☺
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner


Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Latin Translation Needed on Endnote on Ancestor Burial Entry
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 28 February 17 00:15 GMT (UK) »
Why do you think she was baptised twice? Was there a date of baptism after the Latin inscription on the burial entry?
You said she was born 7th May, baptised 8th May, buried 1st June. When was the other baptism? What does the entry of 8th May in St. Mary's Church baptism register say?
Cowban

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Latin Translation Needed on Endnote on Ancestor Burial Entry
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 28 February 17 15:23 GMT (UK) »
Elizabeth was first baptised at St Mary RC in Hexham on 8th May.  I found this out a while back when I was able to visit Northumberland Archives at Woodhorn.  There is something else written in latin on the entry in addition to what I have already mentioned but I could not make out what it said at all unfortunately.
I presumed from the above responses that I have received to my question that Margaret baptised Elizabeth at home and this is what I mean by a second baptism.  Or might this have been another type of annointing?

Thank you for responding - I do appreciate this
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline josey

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Re: Latin Translation Needed on Endnote on Ancestor Burial Entry
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 28 February 17 16:14 GMT (UK) »
I may be wrong & perhaps stan or others can put me right but my understanding is the, in extremis and in the absence of a minister, a lay person may baptise.
See note 1 here
https://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/texts/initiation/emergencybaptism.aspx

I would think Margaret's baptism was the first, not the second. Perhaps Margaret felt an emergency baptism was required & when Elizabeth lived to the next day an official baptism took place?

Stan explains the 2 part ritual here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=732731.msg5778351#msg5778351
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Latin Translation Needed on Endnote on Ancestor Burial Entry
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 28 February 17 18:00 GMT (UK) »
R.C. church also permits lay people to baptise in such cases. ( My classmates and I were instructed how to perform a simple baptism as part of an R.E. lesson at secondary school, in case there was ever a need. Some girls would have become nurses and midwives.)
At a time of high infant mortality doctors, midwives, nurses, family members, friends and neighbours would all probably be familiar with the ritual. A midwife, who, in a poor area may have been a neighbour, would have carried out many emergency baptisms of newborns not expected to survive.
The simple form of baptism which I was taught: No need for holy water. Words: " I baptise thee N.(if a name has been chosen) in the Name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost." Also no need for godparents.
If the baby survived, parents might take it to church at a later date. There the priest would perform the rest of a usual baptism ceremony. Godparents would make promises on behalf of the child, there would be prayers, candle, white garment etc. The priest might carry out the pouring water over the baby's head and naming of the child, just  in case it hadn't been done the 1st time. (I'm not quite sure about the last bit.)
After the ceremony, priest would enter details in baptism register. He would add a note explaining it was a supplementary ceremony. It might be in the form as for Elizabeth, above or other wording. A baptism register of 18thC I looked at last week had the words "supplying defect " (abbreviated) in such cases. Many babies in that rural parish were baptised by a doctor.
In Elizabeth's case it seems like her survival was uncertain from birth, so Margaret baptised her the following day.
I've read several  enquiries like this on here in past few weeks.
Why don't you post the other Latin  bit you can't read. Someone may be able to decipher and translate.
Have you seen the baptism entry of 8th May? What does that say? If there was a 2nd ceremony, there may be an additional entry between 8th May- 1st June. ( A baptismal register at an R. C.  church in Burnley, Lancs. had some double entries. In those cases 1st baptisms were at workhouse.)
Cowban

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Latin Translation Needed on Endnote on Ancestor Burial Entry
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 13:23 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much for your posts on this subject.  I really appreciate all this - very informative indeed! :)  I did wonder how, Margaret, as a lay person, could perform a baptism. 

I found the baptism and the burial record quite a while back when I was able to get to the archives.  Unfortunately, it may be quite a while before I am able to get to the Northumberland Archives again.  At the time I just noted down the basics.  I also noted down the latin above and wrote down 'and there is something else'.  The writing was not legible to me at all but I think it was more latin.  I think baby Elizabeth must have been ailing from the start as most of her siblings were not baptized until about 1-3 weeks after their birth rather than the day after as in Elizabeth's case.

I am intrigued now to find out more.  I think I will put another post out next week on the Northumberland area of RootsChat and see if any kind RootsChatters out there who are visiting this Archives can make out the end bit.  I believe the Archives are closed this week due to obtaining a large acquisition of some sort. 

I really appreciate every thing that has been posted on this subject.  This has been a real education on the baptism topic.  Many, many thanks. :)

Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner