Author Topic: harrison bell whyatt trotter gould  (Read 2727 times)

Offline rosball

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Re: harrison bell whyatt trotter gould
« Reply #9 on: Monday 27 February 17 10:27 GMT (UK) »
Some snippets about Mary Jane Youngtrotter's early life ... possibly your lady ?  All very sad,

Suicide attempt in 1873   http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article71554078 and more details
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5870835

1871 lunacy http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article197572465

1858 death of a child http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article154875182  [too early surely?]

1872 vagrancy http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article196856526

Ros
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Herrington Kent  Henderson Scotland Kerr Scotland Reston Scotland  Smith Scotland  Kellow Cornwall  Doney Cornwall  Wadeson Lancashire  Whiteley Yorkshire Gregan Ireland

Offline Vicz

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Re: harrison bell whyatt trotter gould
« Reply #10 on: Monday 27 February 17 11:03 GMT (UK) »
Life was very sad for most in those days

Offline rosball

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Re: harrison bell whyatt trotter gould
« Reply #11 on: Monday 27 February 17 11:06 GMT (UK) »
Yes it is hard to imagine what many of them endured and what the conditions were like.
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Herrington Kent  Henderson Scotland Kerr Scotland Reston Scotland  Smith Scotland  Kellow Cornwall  Doney Cornwall  Wadeson Lancashire  Whiteley Yorkshire Gregan Ireland

Offline Eric Hatfield

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Re: harrison bell whyatt trotter gould
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 16 December 25 03:55 GMT (UK) »
I don't know if anyone is still interested in this topic, 8 years after. But I am interested in this family and have some good information and a question or two.

There were two people named Mary Jane Young Trotter (sometimes shown as Youngtrotter). The mother was Mary Jane Magnar, who emigrated to Australia from Ireland as a 17 year old orphan in 1849 and had a rather sad life. In about 1853 she had her daughter, Mary Jane - I can't find birth documentation, so that is based on her death cert, so I don't know her birth surname. Then in 1856 she married Richard Young Trotter in Beechworth, Victoria, and her daughter took on the surname Youngtrotter - and quite likely Richard was her father.

Tragically, Richard drowned while crossing a river just the next year. Mary Jane (senior) stayed in Beechworth, had 3 children (one was Richard's, born after he had died, two others by a new partner) but all died within a short time from birth, and her neglect was blamed for one death. Her mental and physical health deteriorated and she died in an insane asylum in 1882.

Her daughter Mary Jane was placed in an Industrial School aged about 12, and upon completion, assigned to a family in western Victoria. There she married Thomas Harrison in 1874 and had two children (one of whom was Anne) before Thomas disappears (presumably he died in about 1877). Mary Jane married Edward Albert Gould in 1879 and had a family.

In 1896 & 1897 Annie (Harrison) had two children with the surname Harrison and "Roechner" included in their names. I can find no marriage, so I assume Mr Roechner (who I haven't identified) was the father but they never married. Then in 1899 Annie married George Whyatt and had a family.  Some family trees report that she later married William Bell, but I haven't been able to verify this. One of her earlier children (Edith) later named Geo Whyatt as her father, but the other is still named "Arthur Recheoner Harrison" at his death and names (wrongly, I believe) John Arthur Harrison & Annie Recheoner as his parents.

Others here have posted lots of other details of this family line, but I hope this gives the overall picture. I can give references for most of these facts if anyone is interested.

I in turn would be very interested if anyone has the following information please:
  • Thomas Harrison's death certificate about 1877? (I have identified several possible candidates, but at $20 each, I don't want to splurge on these 3 or 4 if I don't have to!)
  • Any record of Mr Rechner or Roechner in Horsham around 1895-1900?
  • Details of Mary Jane Magnar/Youngtrotter born about 1853, probbly in Beechworth.
Thanks.


Offline wivenhoe

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Re: harrison bell whyatt trotter gould
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 02:59 »

 You have women using multiple family names which makes it difficult to identify and locate the people you are naming here.

 Can you expand on some of the information that you are giving the forum -

 *  "The mother was Mary Jane Magnar, who emigrated to Australia from Ireland as a 17 year old orphan in 1849" 

Where do you see this information...age...birthplace....year of arrival   what is your source?

* "The mother was Mary Jane Magnar......that is based on her death cert"
You have a death certificate for Mary Jane senior who arrived in 1849?
How is she named on her death certificate?

* "children (one was Richard's, born after he had died, two others by a new partner) but all died within a short time from birth, and her neglect was blamed for one death. Her mental and physical health deteriorated and she died in an insane asylum in 1882".

Can you name these children please.   

* "Her daughter Mary Jane was placed in an Industrial School aged about 12, and upon completion, assigned to a family in western Victoria"

Under what family name is Mary Jane, born ~1853, admitted into the industrial school?

* In 1896 & 1897 Annie (Harrison) had two children with the surname Harrison and "Roechner" included in their names."

I see this birth in VIV BDM index -
HARRISON Arth Roechner  ps   Annie HARRISON / -                        Stawell     22896/1897

What details...name...birth date and place...do you have for second use of the ROECHNER name?

What certificates do you have for the BDM events in the lives of the people you are naming?

Index and newspapers are useful up to a point. Then you need documentation.

Offline bitzar

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Re: harrison bell whyatt trotter gould
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 05:10 »
Hi Eric

Re the Irish Orphan info.  Do you know if she was per The Earl Grey Scheme?  What ship did she arrive on?

The surname RECHNER was traditionally a South Australian name at that time although Pastor Rechner did visit Horsham in 1898 to reopen the Lutheran Church according to Trove.

bitzar.

Offline Eric Hatfield

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Re: harrison bell whyatt trotter gould
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 05:47 »
Hi wivenhoe, thanks for taking an interest. Here are the answers as far as I know them.

Quote
Where do you see this information...age...birthplace....year of arrival   what is your source?
The website "Trevo's Irish Family Orphans" has the full story. I believe it has been well researched, and where I can check it seems accurate.

Quote
You have a death certificate for Mary Jane senior who arrived in 1849? How is she named on her death certificate?
No I don't, but it was a source (1080/1882) in the above reference. I was referring to Mary Jane Gould-Harrison-Youngtrotter, whose death documentation (11624/1902) shows she was born about 1853/4 and her parents were Richard & Mary Jane Youngtrotter.

Quote
Can you name these children please.
Thomas 14531/1858
James 8755/1862
Frances 22623/1865

Quote
Under what family name is Mary Jane, born ~1853, admitted into the industrial school
Mary Jane Youngtrotter I assume, though I have no record of that, only the statement in Trevo's website.

Quote
What details...name...birth date and place...do you have for second use of the ROECHNER name?
I'm sorry, that was a mistake. Edith Elizabeth Harrison has the name Roechner added in the Family Search tree, and that is the only place I can find that name associated with her. At her birth the father is unnamed, and at her death her unmarried surname is that of her stepfather, Geo Whyatt.

Quote
What certificates do you have for the BDM events in the lives of the people you are naming?
No certificates, only the Trevo's website, the Vic BDM online information (which is pretty comprehensive) and the BDM info given on Family Search & My Heritage, which generally is a copy of the Vic BDM info.

I know I need certificates if this is my family, but I am trying to identify my Gret Great Grandfather from DNA matches that I believe come via him. So I have several matches, a lot of trees to develop and hope that one of them leads to the connection I'm after. If I get to that point, I will buy certificates, but until then, I can't afford to buy certificates for dozens of families that I won't be related to.

Offline Eric Hatfield

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Re: harrison bell whyatt trotter gould
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 05:54 »
Hi Eric

Re the Irish Orphan info.  Do you know if she was per The Earl Grey Scheme?  What ship did she arrive on?

The surname RECHNER was traditionally a South Australian name at that time although Pastor Rechner did visit Horsham in 1898 to reopen the Lutheran Church according to Trove.

bitzar.
She came on the Pemberton according to Trevo's web site. And yes, I believe the Rechners/Roechners came into Victoria from South Australia. I so far have been unsuccessful in finding out much about who was in western Victoria at the time I'm interested in, but I'll keep trying. If you have any info, I'd be pleased to see it. Of course the difficulty is that we only have Annie's word for it that a Rechner was the father of one or both children. I suppose it's possible that Geo Whyatt was the father of the second child Edith. Only DNA can settle that, and it would require quite a few more people to test!