Author Topic: Agnes Green Baptism 1890  (Read 1619 times)

Offline mlmcholm

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Agnes Green Baptism 1890
« on: Saturday 18 February 17 15:32 GMT (UK) »
I have recently found 2 baptism records on lancs parish records site for Agnes, born on 9 Nov 1890. One is from 13 Dec 1890, abode workhouse, notes sine caer. The second is from March 1891, abode Union, notes caerim. Supp.

My query is, why 2 baptisms and what do the notes mean? Thanks in advance for all the help. I'd be lost without you all!

Offline clalouha

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Re: Agnes Green Baptism 1890
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 18 February 17 16:18 GMT (UK) »
latin I think
Sine Cera means sincere
Think the other word might be ceremony
Children were often baptised twice if it was thought that they might not survive, the second one showing that it obviously did.


Offline mlmcholm

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Re: Agnes Green Baptism 1890
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 18 February 17 16:34 GMT (UK) »
Thanks. Unfortunately she did die all be it 7 yrs later.

Online emeltom

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Re: Agnes Green Baptism 1890
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 18 February 17 16:50 GMT (UK) »
Sine caer. means without ceremony. The Latin word for ceremony is caerimonia.

However, if they didn't think she was going to survive, why wait over a month before the first baptism?

Emeltom
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Offline mlmcholm

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Re: Agnes Green Baptism 1890
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 18 February 17 16:57 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Emeltom. Maybe it was just that they wanted a ceremony. I have the family out of the workhouse in the 1891 census. Do you know what the note on the later baptism means?

Online emeltom

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Re: Agnes Green Baptism 1890
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 18 February 17 19:42 GMT (UK) »
I presume the caerim. refers to ceremony. The supp could be supplementary or second.

Emeltom
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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Agnes Green Baptism 1890
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 19 February 17 02:11 GMT (UK) »
Sine caer. means without ceremony. The Latin word for ceremony is caerimonia.

However, if they didn't think she was going to survive, why wait over a month before the first baptism?

Emeltom
She may have been born healthy, then taken ill in December. There may have been an epidemic in the workhouse.
Abode Union for later baptism suggests she was still in workhouse.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Agnes Green Baptism 1890
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 19 February 17 03:27 GMT (UK) »
Baptisms of Jacob /James McGough 28th April 1890 (workhouse) & 10th August 1890, both in register of St. Mary of the Assumption, Burnley were exactly the same as  Agnes. Compare them with these 2 baptisms in the same year of the register: Catharine Lee, 1st March, abode workhouse and John Douglas, 9th March who have only 1 entry each, although it looks as if they also had 2 baptism ceremonies.
The baptism on 13th December of Agnes would have been a simple rite  done at short notice.  A baby who was gravely ill, in danger of death could be baptised by a lay person if there wasn't time to fetch a priest. The words "in periculum"  signifying the child was gravely ill might be written on the baptism entry.
Another possibility is that a priest routinely called at the workhouse and carried out quick baptisms on babies there . When the family was back home they took the baby to church for "the full works". This is just a theory of mine. While looking at a baptism register for my own village I noticed that babies from the workhouse were baptised on the same day. It was a tiny cottage workhouse, a mile from the church. So I wondered if the parson went there to baptise the babies.
I see Agnes had a godmother at her 2nd baptism.
If you browse the register of St. Mary of the Assumption you will probably find more examples like those above.
Burnley Workhouse records have only been  on Lancs OPC for a fortnight.
Cowban

Offline mlmcholm

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Re: Agnes Green Baptism 1890
« Reply #8 on: Monday 20 February 17 18:28 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Maiden Stone, that was a very well explained theory, and in my opinion too, probably the answer. I have recently come across a newspaper article on GenesReunited, for 29 Dec 1894 in the Burnley Express, relating to Agnes' father, Michael Green, in court for deserting his family. Would anyone have access to this as I have no account? There is also an article about Michael Green being found dead on 20 Nov 1901. This family of Green's had a tough life!